Alexandra's political power/control during WWI

Thank you,

Nicholas felt that his duty was to his allies.  I agree that no one could have changed his mind.  It was a matter of honor to Nicholas to stand by the treaties that he had signed.  That is why he would not make a separate peace even when Lenin would.

I believe that Nicholas was caught between Alexandra, the woman he loved, and Rasputin, the man who was filling her head full of all kinds of advice.  If Nicholas was a stronger person, he could have stood up to Alexandra and kicked Rasputin out of their lives, but he also knew that Alexandra believed (and so did NIcolas) that Rasputin was the source of healing for Alexei.

How hard their lives must have been.  The one time that Nicholas should have taken Rasputin's advice and not mobilized for WWI, he refused to listen.  But then Nicholas was brought up on the stories of war and expansion and the superiority of the Russian soldier against Napoleon.

Above all else, Nicholas believed in honor and commitment.

When you think about it, most of Russia's problems in the 20th century go back to either Kaiser Wilhelm or Rasputin.   People hated war, and the Kaiser gave it to them.  They hated Rasputin, and, well, he still was there.  If neither of them had been there, a lot of the world's modern problems would have been solved.  And if there was no Kaiser, there would be no Hitler.  Think where that would put us.  No WWII, no conflict in the Middle East because of the formation or Israel, or anything tied to that.

And I am not off-topic, I am relating it to other things.

... Of course Alexadra ordered arrestion of Young prince, however, any murder was crime for her.

Murder is considered to be a crime among all law abiding citizens. Why isolate the Empress about that truism as if she was the one at fault?

Although Dmitri's noble supporters wanted to believe that Alexandra Fyodorovna ordered Dmitri's arrest, in reality it was Nikolai II who acted exactly as the Criminal Code stipulated.

Margarita

Hi Margarita - how have you been?  Can you fill in some more of the details on this?  I was under the impression that Alexandra did order the house arrest of Dimitri.  Nicholas was at the front and Alexandra acted on his behalf - atleast that is what I've read.  Are you saying that Nicholas ordered his detention from the front? 

Many thanks!

dca

... Of course Alexadra ordered arrestion of Young prince, however, any murder was crime for her.

Murder is considered to be a crime among all law abiding citizens. Why isolate the Empress about that truism as if she was the one at fault?

Although Dmitri's noble supporters wanted to believe that Alexandra Fyodorovna ordered Dmitri's arrest, in reality it was Nikolai II who acted exactly as the Criminal Code stipulated.

Margarita

Hi Margarita - how have you been?  Can you fill in some more of the details on this?  I was under the impression that Alexandra did order the house arrest of Dimitri.  Nicholas was at the front and Alexandra acted on his behalf - atleast that is what I've read.  Are you saying that Nicholas ordered his detention from the front? 

Many thanks!

dca

Hi Dominic,

I doing really well thanks!

Yes that is precisely what I am saying. The Prikaz requesting Dmitri's house detention originated from the Emperor.

Best regards,

Margarita

I believe that Nicholas was caught between Alexandra, the woman he loved, and Rasputin, the man who was filling her head full of all kinds of advice.  If Nicholas was a stronger person, he could have stood up to Alexandra and kicked Rasputin out of their lives, but he also knew that Alexandra believed (and so did NIcolas) that Rasputin was the source of healing for Alexei.

But Alixz you have perhaps inadvertently, revealed that Nikolai II DID have strength of character. He listened but did not necessarily take on board what Alexandra might have suggested.

Why should Nikolai II remove Rasputin from their lives if they both parents believed that Rasputin had offered comfort to Alexei and to his mother?

Above all else, Nicholas believed in honor and commitment.

Do not these two traits indicate strength of character on Nikolai II's part?


Margarita

...According to other sources, Rasputin's wound while bad was not that bad, but the lack of modern medical care is what led to his slow recovery.  I doubt seriously that Rasputin would let his finger off the pulse of what was going on in the capital just because he was in bed in Pokrovskoye.

I wonder which sources you relied on?

Rasputin's prognosis was poor after he sustained his injury. In fact he drifted in and out of consciousness over the next couple of days.

After he was stabilized, Rasputin was conveyed to Tyumen where he was hospitalized. He underwent a complex abdominal surgery that required time to heal.

His post surgical recovery was uncomplicated and must surely indicate that he had received quality medical care according to the standards of the day within a rural setting?

Margarita

... There are reports of Nicholas not actually doing any war work, but taking long walks, playing dominoes and receiving and dining with his family when they came his way.

Which reports suggested that Alixz?

Could Alexandra appoint or dismiss ministers?  I don't think so, but I do think that she made those same things happen by her constant cajoling and giving advice in her letters behind the scene.  Nicholas, by this time had already decided that one Rasputin was worth ten of Alexandra's illnesses.  So he took her advice and made bad decisions.

You are correct to say that Alexandra Fyodorovna did not have legal authority to appoint or dismiss ministers. However it is incorrect to presume that she affected that outcome by what you describe as  "constant cajoling". It would be good if you could provide at least one example to support your contention that Alexandra Fyodorovna succeeded with "cajoling" her husband about the dismissal and appointment of government Ministers.

Why not consider that other individuals in the government offered advice as to who might be suitable replacements?

I am rather curious to know which reference had estimated that Nikolai II had decided that "one Rasputin was worth ten of Alexandra's illnesses"? Do you know exactly when he reached that extraordinary decision?  

To me, Rasputin was a mischief maker. I don't know if others feel that he was.

No doubt the sources you have consulted have provided you with this view.

Have you ever considered that perhaps it was Petrograd society, which created the myth that Rasputin "was a mischief maker"?  

Margarita

Margarita,

I will look up the sources for you. As to Nicholas saying that one Rasputin was worth putting up with ten of Alexandra's illnesses or tantrum or whatever the original quote is, I know that I have read it more than once.

What is your source for saying that the house arrest of Dmitri came from Nicholas?  I have always read that Alexandra ordered it on her own and that she had no authority to do so.

Her "cajoling" was in her letters.  And in her letters her emphasis was on the advice that Rasputin gave her.  She would say that the person was not a good man because "Our Friend" said so.

It will take me some time to find the sources that say that Nicholas did more walking and playing dominoes at Stavka, but I also know that is what I have read.  In his letters to Alexandra he talks about the days that Alexei was there and how late they slept and how they amused themselves.  Having his son with him was no excuse for not attending meetings and making tactical decisions.

I don't know if others in the government offered any kind of advice.  As I said before, they all knew that one false move and they too would be replaced.

And why do you think that his ministers eventually came to ask for his abdication?  Nicholas was not doing anything positive to help either the war effort or the situation in St. Petersburg.

It took a lot of courage for those men to go to their Tsar and to demand his abdication.  Too bad they accepted his abdication for Alexei as well.  But I doubt that if they thought that Nicholas was doing anything that was worth anything, they would not have gone to him and demand that he give up his throne.

His invulnerability and the illusion of his "God given power" had vanished.

[Mathematic, art and history in ♥]

Felix was arrested on Nikolayesvsky railroad. But put only under house arrest, because Tsarina wanted whole case to be investgated. Ella Feodorovna begged Nicholas to give mercy on Felix, but Nicholas refused all petitions written by many Romanov's, saying that no one has right to kill. Dmitri Pavlovich was sent to Persia, he got order to do so.

Отправлен распоряжением Николая II-го в Персию, в отряд генерала Баратова, что фактически спасло ему жизнь после начала революции в России.

Posted/sent decree by Nicholas II in Persia, in the detachment of General Baratova that saved his life after the revolution in Russia.
From:
http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Дмитрий_Павлович

Felix was arrested on Nikolayesvsky railroad. But put only under house arrest, because Tsarina wanted whole case to be investgated. Ella Feodorovna begged Nicholas to give mercy on Felix, but Nicholas refused all petitions written by many Romanov's, saying that no one has right to kill. Dmitri Pavlovich was sent to Persia, he got order to do so.

Отправлен распоряжением Николая II-го в Персию, в отряд генерала Баратова, что фактически спасло ему жизнь после начала революции в России.

Posted/sent decree by Nicholas II in Persia, in the detachment of General Baratova that saved his life after the revolution in Russia.
From:
http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Дмитрий_Павлович

Two interesting reactions can be identified from the posting provided by nena. Ella sought mercy on behalf of her friend who became a cold-blooded murderer but her sister Alexandra Fyodorovna expected that the force of the law must take precedence above any personal considerations.

There was only one petition sent to Nikolai II, which was signed by several members of the family.

Margarita

... It took a lot of courage for those men to go to their Tsar and to demand his abdication. 

Their action can only be described as treachery. It was not one that required "courage".

Margarita

Margarita,

I will look up the sources for you. As to Nicholas saying that one Rasputin was worth putting up with ten of Alexandra's illnesses or tantrum or whatever the original quote is, I know that I have read it more than once.

Thank you!

The fact that the quotation has appeared in more than one source may simply indicate that it was unquestioningly repeated by a few authors.

... Having his son with him was no excuse for not attending meetings and making tactical decisions.

What is your basis in reaching these presumptions about Nikolai II? 

Margarita

It will take me some time to find the sources that say that Nicholas did more walking and playing dominoes at Stavka, but I also know that is what I have read.

I have read exactly the same thing in Nicholas II and the tragic end of the Romanovs by Henri Troyat, and also, according to Troyat, he spent whole days reading.