Author Topic: Ella's grave in Jerusalem & her relics  (Read 155610 times)

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Offline Martyn

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Re: Ella's grave in Jerusalem & her relics
« Reply #60 on: December 18, 2004, 06:36:45 PM »
Is it possible that the conditions in the Alapaevsk mineshaft helped to preserve the condition of Ella's body?  After all, three months is an awful long time for her body to have remained there.
Some preservation/emblaming etc must have been performed after the recovery from the mine, surely, to account for the current condition of her remains.
By the way Teddy, local peasants testified that they could hear the sound of someone singing hymns coming form the mineshaft and there was evidence to suggest that she had attempted to assist the other victims with their wounds; strips of her habit had been used as makeshift bandages.  I try to take consolation from the fact that Ella's faith was immense and unshakeable, and hope that she would have fallen back upon this to sustain her in her hour of need.
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Offline Helen_Azar

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Re: Ella's grave in Jerusalem & her relics
« Reply #61 on: December 18, 2004, 06:51:06 PM »
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...local peasants testified that they could hear the sound of someone singing hymns coming form the mineshaft...  


From what I understand, this is a myth...

Offline Martyn

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Re: Ella's grave in Jerusalem & her relics
« Reply #62 on: December 19, 2004, 05:12:49 AM »
Well Helen the hymn singing may be a myth but my point remains the same; one can only hope that she found some comfort from somewhere at that terrible time.
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Offline Merrique

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Re: Ella's grave in Jerusalem & her relics
« Reply #63 on: December 19, 2004, 11:53:44 AM »
After looking at that picture of Ella's body several times I just have one question.How do we actually know this is actuallu Ella and not her companion nun?Her face looks very distorted because of her injuries to me.So it makes me wonder how they could positively identify her.Did they take pictures of her companion nun and do you have them FA so we could do a comparrison?I'd be curious to see both pictures to do a proper comparison.
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Re: Ella's grave in Jerusalem & her relics
« Reply #64 on: December 19, 2004, 12:32:12 PM »
I assume they took a photo of Varvara, but I don't have it in Sokolov.  The bodies were identified by local people who had seen them before the murders. Ella, was further identified because she was found still clutching two small sacks in her hands containing her personal necessities and wearing an icon of the Holy Savior, set with precious stones on a chain around her neck.  Sokolov later discovered that this icon had belonged to the Emperor, and he prayed with it the night before the abdication, and later gave it to Ella.  It had this inscription on the back "Palm Saturday, 13 April 1894"

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Re: Ella's grave in Jerusalem & her relics
« Reply #65 on: December 19, 2004, 01:05:44 PM »
I seem to remember reading a letter that Ella's sister Victoria wrote, recalling the state of Ella's body. I think she said it was dried out, but very well preserved. Now I know I'm probably the 10th person to ask this question in this thread, but WHY then does that picture show a very badly damaged body? I got the impression that if her coffin was opened, she would look like she was sleeping, or something. I definately didn't think she looked anything like what that disturbing picture showed.

Then on the other hand, maybe that picture really is how she looks, because why else would they cover her face, hands and feet?

Am I the only one to be VERY confused by this? Why have there been so many conflicting things written about that state of her body, to what this picture shows?

Offline Merrique

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Re: Ella's grave in Jerusalem & her relics
« Reply #66 on: December 19, 2004, 01:31:20 PM »
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I seem to remember reading a letter that Ella's sister Victoria wrote, recalling the state of Ella's body. I think she said it was dried out, but very well preserved. Now I know I'm probably the 10th person to ask this question in this thread, but WHY then does that picture show a very badly damaged body? I got the impression that if her coffin was opened, she would look like she was sleeping, or something. I definately didn't think she looked anything like what that disturbing picture showed.

Then on the other hand, maybe that picture really is how she looks, because why else would they cover her face, hands and feet?

Am I the only one to be VERY confused by this? Why have there been so many conflicting things written about that state of her body, to what this picture shows?


I was wondering the same thing Alicky.
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Offline Dominic_Albanese

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Re: Ella's grave in Jerusalem & her relics
« Reply #67 on: December 19, 2004, 02:29:41 PM »
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I assume they took a photo of Varvara, but I don't have it in Sokolov.  The bodies were identified by local people who had seen them before the murders. Ella, was further identified because she was found still clutching two small sacks in her hands containing her personal necessities and wearing an icon of the Holy Savior, set with precious stones on a chain around her neck.  Sokolov later discovered that this icon had belonged to the Emperor, and he prayed with it the night before the abdication, and later gave it to Ella.  It had this inscription on the back "Palm Saturday, 13 April 1894"


FA: I'm interested in this - How would N II get this icon to Ella *after* the abdication?  I thought the last time Ella saw any member of the family was when she went to visit Alexandra and they had a major disagreement over Rasputin and Alexandra essentially through Ella out of the AP.

What am I missing here?

Thanks, as always.

dca

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Re: Ella's grave in Jerusalem & her relics
« Reply #68 on: December 19, 2004, 03:16:34 PM »
Thomas.
I don't know what edition of Sokolov you saw, but our second printing copy says only "Fig. 79 - Cadavre de la Grande Duchesse Elisabeth Feodorovna."
No where does it say anything close to "presumeably" any where on that photo or in the text.

Dominic.
I have no idea. Sokolov does not elaborate on the precise story of how the icon got to Ella. He just states exactly what I wrote, on pg. 298.  the original reads: "Elle portait sur la poitrine une icone du Savueur ornée de pierres précieuses.  D'après mes reseignements cette icone appartenait à l'Empereur qui avait prié devant elle dans la nuit précédant son abidication et l'avait donnée ensuite à la Grand-Duchesse.  Sur le dos on lit l'inscription suivante: Samedi des Rameaux, 13 Avril 1894."

Offline Belochka

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Re: Ella's grave in Jerusalem & her relics
« Reply #69 on: December 19, 2004, 06:24:40 PM »
In my copy of Sokolov, only members of the Imperial Family death photos are included. The other persons who were murdered with the Imperial members have been omitted.

Each photograph is identified in Russian on the photograph itself. Image # 137 (of my book) states: The corpse of Grand Duchess Elizaveta Feodorovna also typed in Russian immediately below the photograph.

The soft tissue facial features have deteriorated, which is at all odds to what Ernst Ludwig of Hesse wrote in his letter. One must consider that writing the truth to another family member can be too painful to read. The image of an intact body is far more acceptable emotionally to some who prefer to believe that was indeed the case.

Unfortunately that letter does distort the historic truth.


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Offline ashanti01

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Re: Ella's grave in Jerusalem & her relics
« Reply #70 on: December 20, 2004, 02:32:54 AM »
Its seems hard to believe the body pictured is Ella's body. When most accounts of her body while being moved, say that her skin appeared to be only dried up.
The photo shown appears to be way more than dried up.

Offline Teddy

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Re: Ella's grave in Jerusalem & her relics
« Reply #71 on: December 20, 2004, 07:27:55 AM »
And how about the other body's how did they look like?

Offline Martyn

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Re: Ella's grave in Jerusalem & her relics
« Reply #72 on: December 20, 2004, 03:10:31 PM »
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One must consider that writing the truth to another family member can be too painful to read
 Belochka, I think that there must truth in that.
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Offline Marlene

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Re: Ella's grave in Jerusalem & her relics
« Reply #73 on: December 21, 2004, 08:52:27 PM »
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Charles has a personal, spiritual devotion to Elisabeth (I hope someday he will feel the same about Alix).  It is said that Phillip has returned to his Orthodox roots.

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Re: Ella's grave in Jerusalem & her relics
« Reply #74 on: December 28, 2004, 05:10:01 PM »
The heart-breaking photograph does, I think, show Ella's body intact. The face seems to be covered in dirt. For some reason it reminded me of the Mel Gibson 'Passion of the Christ' where the beautiful is made to appear ugly by the ugliness of cruelty and prejudice, but the truth still shines through.