Author Topic: Morganatic mariage Tsarevitch, what then?  (Read 7313 times)

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Offline Sergei Witte

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Morganatic mariage Tsarevitch, what then?
« on: January 01, 2010, 04:12:13 AM »
As the title says: What would happen if under 19th century Romanov rule, if the tsarevitch would engage in a morganastic marriage, would he no longer be heir?

Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: Morganatic mariage Tsarevitch, what then?
« Reply #1 on: January 01, 2010, 04:21:19 AM »
Yes, he would still be heir, but his wife would not be empress and any children would not inherit the  throne.
Life may not be the party we expected, but while we are here, might as well dance..

Do you want the truth, or my side of the story ?- Hank Ketchum.

Offline Vecchiolarry

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Re: Morganatic mariage Tsarevitch, what then?
« Reply #2 on: January 01, 2010, 11:43:34 AM »
Hello Robert & Happy new Year!

Here's another situation:
Suppose Michael had taken the Throne - would he have had the power to make Natalia, Empress;  and George, Heir to the Throne??

And:
Had Alexander II lived longer - would he have made Catherine, Empress;  and their son a Dynast???

Larry

Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: Morganatic mariage Tsarevitch, what then?
« Reply #3 on: January 01, 2010, 03:36:24 PM »
Thank you Larry, and many happy returns from me in a V ERY<VERY cold village in Bedfordshire, where heat is a luxury and power is verging on  "iffy". Not to worry, I am back in London soon...
  Now, as to your question-  as I have posted many times- NO the Emperor could NOT arbitrarily change the Fundamental Laws.  He COULD make his wishes known, but the consesus would come from the Duma, the Holy Synod, the Imperial Family [a contntious lot if there ever was one] as well as the legal  authorities. He did not have the authorty to change the succession at will...the pourpose of the Laws to begin with.
 He could [and did] marry legally but not equallly.
 Remember, the Coroination was considered a Sacrament as well as a ceremony.  The Emperor was annoited a priest in  the Russian Orthodox Church. As such, his consort must be equal,  even to a minimom extent.
 Cheers, all, all the best for 2010 !
Life may not be the party we expected, but while we are here, might as well dance..

Do you want the truth, or my side of the story ?- Hank Ketchum.

Offline Vecchiolarry

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Re: Morganatic mariage Tsarevitch, what then?
« Reply #4 on: January 01, 2010, 03:47:20 PM »
Thank you Robert,

That is what I thought, but just needed re-enforcement(s) to my knowledge...

We also are freezing here in Canada, but it is supposed to warm up tomorrow.
Hope you make it to the London warmth soon.

Cheers,
Larry

Offline Victor

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Re: Morganatic mariage Tsarevitch, what then?
« Reply #5 on: January 02, 2010, 03:56:44 AM »
Robert-interesting point you mentioned.I thought the Tsar had the power to change things at will-though of course he was not naturally inclined to change and I rather think he would lack the courage if pressed.Warm and sunny here,on my summer holiday;took the ferry to an island in the Harbour and spent the day at the beach.
'The world breaks all of us but some of us are stronger in the broken places.'Ernest Hemingway.

Naslednik Norvezhskiy

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Re: Morganatic mariage Tsarevitch, what then?
« Reply #6 on: February 09, 2010, 04:44:48 AM »
Robert-interesting point you mentioned.I thought the Tsar had the power to change things at will
Not after 1905, when he was supposed to be a sort of constitutional monarch.

Did the Pauline Law have a clause similar to that other great absolutist constitution the Danish Lex Regia, whose paragraph III stated:
Skall derfor ochsaa Kongen alleene haffve høyeste Magt og Myndighed til at giøre Lowe og forordninger effter sin eygen gode Villie og Velbehag, at forklare, forandre, formeere, formindske, ja og slet at oppheffve forrige aff hannem sielff eller aff hans Forfædre udgiffne Lowe (denne KongeLow alleene undertagen [...]).
=
Shall therefore also the King alone have the highest Power and Authority to make Laws and Decrees according to his own good Will and Pleasure, to explain, change, extend, diminish, yea and even to abolish Laws already given by him self or his Ancestors (this Regal Law alone excepted [...]). :-)
?

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Re: Morganatic mariage Tsarevitch, what then?
Imagine the proclamation:
"The Heir-Tsesarevich's offspring will not be able to succeed him and he himself will be too ill to rule, but apart from these mere trifles he will be Sovereign Emperor and Autocrat!!!"........[Soundtrack of "Bozhe, Tsarya khrani" blending into Queen's "The Show Must Go On"]
« Last Edit: February 09, 2010, 04:47:58 AM by Rœrik »

Offline Kalafrana

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Re: Morganatic mariage Tsarevitch, what then?
« Reply #7 on: February 09, 2010, 06:38:53 AM »
There have been suggestions that Alexander II intendedto make his morganatic wife Empress, but nothing happened before he was murdered.

The classic example of the morganatic marriage of an immediate heir presumptive was Archdule Franz Ferdinand. Franz Josef agreed to the marriage on condition that Franz Ferdinand renounced all succession rights for any children he might have by Sophie (in fact, they had a daughter and two sons).

Ann