Author Topic: Why doesn't communism work?  (Read 135726 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline TimM

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 1928
    • View Profile
    • Rex and Hannah Chronicles Wikia
Re: Why doesn't communism work?
« Reply #60 on: July 20, 2010, 08:11:03 PM »
What I meant is that after World War II, it seemed that all those that supported the Nazis had vanished.
Cats: You just gotta love them!

Constantinople

  • Guest
Re: Why doesn't communism work?
« Reply #61 on: July 21, 2010, 12:54:27 AM »
I am not sure about the percentage of Germans who were Nazis but the number of people who supported the Nazi party during its regime was an overwhelming majority.

Offline TimM

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 1928
    • View Profile
    • Rex and Hannah Chronicles Wikia
Re: Why doesn't communism work?
« Reply #62 on: July 21, 2010, 01:03:42 AM »
Yeah, and it seems all these people went POOF after the war. 

Cats: You just gotta love them!

Constantinople

  • Guest
Re: Why doesn't communism work?
« Reply #63 on: July 21, 2010, 01:35:32 AM »
i think transmogrification is a good word to describe it.  The number of Germans I have heard say,"Yes my father fought in the war but he was no Nazi.  You would be surprised how much he detested Hitler." and my response is usually yes I would be.  There must be millions and millions of these people.  It makes  you wonder why there were not more plots against Hitler.  I have one friend whose relative actually was a good German.  He was a von Moltke.  He was part of a number of plots against Hitler and was eventually executed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helmuth_James_Graf_von_Moltke

Alixz

  • Guest
Re: Why doesn't communism work?
« Reply #64 on: July 21, 2010, 09:01:20 AM »
Actually, Orwell used the BBC as his model for 1984

I should have said "Orwellian".

And I was basing my comment on his titles to a documentary that I saw not too long ago where he was still being called "Dear Leader".  I think is was on NBC and was only about two or three years ago.  Perhaps they got the titles wrong.

I actually think it was Diane Sawyer who did the piece and visited North Korea.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2010, 09:35:44 AM by Alixz »

Constantinople

  • Guest
Re: Why doesn't communism work?
« Reply #65 on: July 21, 2010, 09:23:03 AM »
What Orwell was implying was that working for the BBC was like working in Soviet Russia.  One of the problems with Americans analysing Orwell is that they seem to filter everything through a vehement anti communist bias.  this is not of course all Americans but a lot of those in the media.

Alixz

  • Guest
Re: Why doesn't communism work?
« Reply #66 on: July 21, 2010, 09:23:44 AM »
As for all of the "disappearing Nazi's and Communists"  they still existed but for the sake of self preservation they faded into the background.  As someone else said and I have said many times both Nazi and Communist were political parties and one had to join.

However life under these ruling political parties and accepting the way the country was run was far different from being a member of either party.

The Treaty of Versailles broke the back of the already defeated German people.  The Wiemar Republic was useless and Germany was becoming poorer and inflation was running rampant.  The Germans (like all others) are a proud people and many of them only wanted their rights to self determination and self rule back.  The Nazi party seemed to be the answer to that want.  Leadership which would not allow the Allied victors of WWI to continue running Germany or the lives of the German people.  

I don't believe that, in the beginning of the Nazi rise, that the people of Germany saw the Nazis as any more than a way to regain their status in the world.

The corruption that followed as Hitler began his rule was not different than the corruption that others talk about when referring Lenin and in his wake Stalin and Stalin's purges.

Both the Germans after WWI and the Russians after the fall of the monarchy only wanted "more power to the people" and to the country that they lived in.  Unfortunately the megalomania of both Hitler and Stalin is what we remember and what the poor staving and yet hopeful people of both Germany and Russia had no way of seeing when they followed their two leaders into history.

They believed, as we do every time we vote in the US, that things were going to get better for the common man.  The difference in both post WWI Germany and post revolution Russia is that things were so bad that the people would have followed anyone who said they could help them and change things.

We are supposed to know better, but we do the same every four years.


Constantinople

  • Guest
Re: Why doesn't communism work?
« Reply #67 on: July 21, 2010, 09:26:28 AM »
and just in case  you think I made that up about 1984, this is from the BBC
He began writing 1984 after resigning from the BBC World Service in September 1943 where he had been employed writing and producing news for India.

It was his increasing frustration with the Ministry of Information, which censored the news during World War II, which led to his resignation and subsequently became the central theme of 1984.


Alixz

  • Guest
Re: Why doesn't communism work?
« Reply #68 on: July 21, 2010, 09:30:20 AM »
What Orwell was implying was that working for the BBC was like working in Soviet Russia.  One of the problems with Americans analysing Orwell is that they seem to filter everything through a vehement anti communist bias.  this is not of course all Americans but a lot of those in the media.

I have a book called Facial Justice where there is a "Leader" who controls all including how facial beauty is judged.  I have to find the book and look for the right words, but this leader is also referred to as "Dear" I think (again I have to find the book, I haven't read it in years).  

I put it badly.  My comment about Orwell was only about dictators who are "loved" and followed blindly and called by names that are distinctly not "dictator like".  I wasn't commenting on the story or its background.  "Big Brother is watching you"
« Last Edit: July 21, 2010, 09:32:42 AM by Alixz »

Offline Robert_Hall

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 6649
  • a site.
    • View Profile
Re: Why doesn't communism work?
« Reply #69 on: July 21, 2010, 09:50:53 AM »
 As we are discussing various dictators, "Dear" or otherwise, the BBC  announced this morning that the infamous Ceausescu's [sic] were  being exhumed for DNA tests. To prove they were actually shot and buried.  Why this has become necessary is  beyond me.   After all, the whole  gory procedure, bullets to grave  was filmed and  broadcast.
  There will always be "flat earthers" I suppose.
 And TimM,  30 million Germans do not go "poof" and disappear. The Nazi regime ruled  by intimidation and propaganda.   To great success, thanks to Goebbels and  his talents in  those  media that applied at the time.
 Many of those political tricks  were so  productive, they are still utilised by our modern politicians.
 Hitler was perhaps a charismatic fad.  We have seen more  since then,  especially  through  modern media.
  Does not even have to be a political agenda,  pop culture breeds such "cults"
Life may not be the party we expected, but while we are here, might as well dance..

Do you want the truth, or my side of the story ?- Hank Ketchum.

Alixz

  • Guest
Re: Why doesn't communism work?
« Reply #70 on: July 21, 2010, 10:53:26 AM »
Will they be exhuming Saddam next?  (sarcasm)

I read an article not too long ago that claimed that the skull that is being kept in the Kremlin and is supposed to Hitler's is actually a woman's skull.

Perhaps the Soviets picked up Ava Braun's skull by accident?  There will always be the mystery of the location of Hitler's remains.  Another of those folk tales which will remain unsolved (or not).

After all if they could find the remains of the Romanovs after almost 80 years, perhaps someone will find Hitler's remains and not just a questionable skull.

Offline TimM

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 1928
    • View Profile
    • Rex and Hannah Chronicles Wikia
Re: Why doesn't communism work?
« Reply #71 on: July 21, 2010, 11:36:54 AM »
Quote
the BBC  announced this morning that the infamous Ceausescu's [sic] were  being exhumed for DNA tests. To prove they were actually shot and buried

Probably because there are conspiracy nuts who think the executions were faked and the Ceaucescu's are still alive somewhere.  I remember seeing it as it happened, and I don't buy it.  Nicholae and Elena Ceaucescu were executed that day, plain and simple.  Of course, these are probably the same people that think JFK and Elvis are still alive too.


Quote
And TimM,  30 million Germans do not go "poof" and disappear

Well, I didn't mean in the liternal sense.  I meant that the Allies were hard pressed to find a person who said:  "Yeah, I supported the Nazis 100 percent."
Cats: You just gotta love them!

Alixz

  • Guest
Re: Why doesn't communism work?
« Reply #72 on: July 21, 2010, 01:21:24 PM »
Probably because they didn't want to end up at Nuremberg.

Constantinople

  • Guest
Re: Why doesn't communism work?
« Reply #73 on: July 21, 2010, 01:35:30 PM »
I still remember that video and wonder why a few more dictatorships dont end that way.

Alixz

  • Guest
Re: Why doesn't communism work?
« Reply #74 on: July 21, 2010, 01:40:15 PM »
Remember how they tried to contain the video of Saddam's hanging, but it got out anyway?  If I remember correctly that was because of a cell phone.  There was no official news footage of the actual execution just the moments leading up to it.  That alone would lead the conspiracy theorists to begin agitating.

I am sure, though, there must have been something done to preserve the final moments just so that an exhumation would not ever be asked for.