Author Topic: Private rooms of the Winter Palace  (Read 517070 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline PAVLOV

  • Graf
  • ***
  • Posts: 427
    • View Profile
Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
« Reply #285 on: March 16, 2009, 07:56:15 AM »
May I plse ask a question ? Could someone tell me which of the private rooms lead to the balcony.  ( It always looked so flimsy, as if it could just fall down, depositing some Imperial person in the rose bushes below!)  Someone has said that the enlarged window is still there. I have studied so many photographs and cant see it.

Also does anyone have a photo of the door the family used to enter the palace? Or did they just enter the front door ?

Thanks   

Offline Annetta

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 40
    • View Profile
Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
« Reply #286 on: March 16, 2009, 09:41:21 AM »
Dear Joanna and Pavlov!!!
that pic with the winter palace and cows refers to the 1940th, time of sieged Leningrad. people had nothing to eat and these cows were driven to the city from nearby villages.
"This could only happen in  Soviet Russia" - this exclamation is false. this is result of german nazis invasion.

if you are interested,  look at this beds of cabbage in front of the St'Isaak Cath, one of the main cath of Saint-Petersburg

http://perspektivy.org/osobaya_tema_velikaya_pobeda/pobeda_9.htm
"Kindness and honesty is important only"

Offline Robert_Hall

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 6648
  • a site.
    • View Profile
Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
« Reply #287 on: March 16, 2009, 10:12:15 AM »
St Issac's is a remarkable building.  It used to store treasures from the Winter Palace during the siege.  As well as bomb shelter for those staff who were left. It also withstood the bombing with little damage.  Going up to the dome balcony and the cupola above that provides a  wonderful  of the city. Which is  probably why the Red Army comand used it as a watch post.
Life may not be the party we expected, but while we are here, might as well dance..

Do you want the truth, or my side of the story ?- Hank Ketchum.

Offline BobG

  • Graf
  • ***
  • Posts: 426
  • George of Greece
    • View Profile
Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
« Reply #288 on: March 16, 2009, 02:48:36 PM »
May I plse ask a question ? Could someone tell me which of the private rooms lead to the balcony.  ( It always looked so flimsy, as if it could just fall down, depositing some Imperial person in the rose bushes below!)  Someone has said that the enlarged window is still there. I have studied so many photographs and cant see it.

Also does anyone have a photo of the door the family used to enter the palace? Or did they just enter the front door ?

Thanks   

Pavlov,
The family entered the palace courtyard via the gates on Palace Square and entered the palace through the entrance to the left on this picture.  This would be the way they would enter in carriages and later in autos.


On occasionally, they would leave via the entrance on the Neva embankment, but I believe this would be primarily if they were travelining by boat .


BobG

Offline Joanna

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 1308
  • Winter Palace Research
    • View Profile
    • Winter Palace Research
Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
« Reply #289 on: March 16, 2009, 02:57:44 PM »
that pic with the winter palace and cows refers to the 1940th, time of sieged Leningrad.

Many thanks Annetta. I did not know what that was that surrounds the lower perimeter of the palace and must have been sand/gravel with bunker style entrances.

Pavlov, the one in the photo I had linked to was #304 - the suite of rooms of Alexander II's wife Marie Alexandrovna. Another was located in #181 part of the suite of Nicholas II and Alexandra. It was originally rooms occupied by Alexandra Fedorovna, wife of Nicholas I. This was part of her Winter Garden which also had a recessed stair area that is no longer there. The balconies although appearing fragile were of iron. The door windows were later after the revolution restored to the uniformity of the windows that you see today. Most exterior photos of these balconies are fussy with grillwork, awnings, that it is impossible to see the door but interior paintings from c1850s-60s show the interior area leading unto the balcony.

Joanna

Offline PAVLOV

  • Graf
  • ***
  • Posts: 427
    • View Profile
Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
« Reply #290 on: March 17, 2009, 09:00:58 AM »
Thank you for your answers.
I did not mean to give offence about the cows, it just looks so unusual to see them strolling past the Grand Winter Palace ! Those were terrible times, and people were starving, so I suppose it could have been their last walk. 

Offline PAVLOV

  • Graf
  • ***
  • Posts: 427
    • View Profile
Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
« Reply #291 on: March 23, 2009, 09:03:01 AM »
Are the big arched windows in the photo those of the former winter garden ? Looks like that is the sunny side of the palace.
Interesting pictures, i wonder what door they used to sneak in and out of privately. Alexander ll used to sneak out for a walk about town, until things became too dangerous. I suppose there are hundreds of doors anyway, probably a huge security risk and one of the reasons they basically moved elsewhere after A ll's assasination. I can imagine that even today the building must be a nightmare to secure from burglars. From what I can remember the Louvre in Paris does not have all that many points of entry.
I was once locked into the Palace at Versailles by accident, which was great, as i could snoop around to my hearts content. But it was very difficult getting out, and I spent hours looking for a door, and almost ended up in jail !  I WOULD NOT MIND BEING LOCKED UP IN THE WINTER PALACE !! Imagine all the wonderful snooping one could do in there. I would find all those private apartments they are hiding from us !! Sigh.
   

Offline Robert_Hall

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 6648
  • a site.
    • View Profile
Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
« Reply #292 on: March 23, 2009, 11:55:41 AM »
The Hermitage is a museum now, not a residence. They are not  hiding any private apartments, they simply do not exist any longer. They are now galleries.  I have been to the place several times, and the former private apartments of the last IF  are now galleries of 19th & early 20th century furniture.
 Oh, I was once locked into St Denis in Paris.  I was so engrossed  in the  crypt. That was interesting, being all alone with the dead kings & queens of France.  When they found me, I was not arrested but was told it happens often and they appreciated the attention. It is in an out of the way area, after all.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2009, 12:00:48 PM by Robert_Hall »
Life may not be the party we expected, but while we are here, might as well dance..

Do you want the truth, or my side of the story ?- Hank Ketchum.

Offline Joanna

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 1308
  • Winter Palace Research
    • View Profile
    • Winter Palace Research
Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
« Reply #293 on: March 23, 2009, 06:45:50 PM »
In a way they are hiding parts of the private apartments. In Nicolas & Alexandra's suite, there are rooms behind the main ones which were once bathrooms and wardrobes, also the chapel. Whether they retain any of the original design, it is difficult to ascertain unless one of us has a peek. Granted in the rooms of Marie Alexandrovna, her bath and any indication of the plumbing is gone. The rooms of the ladies-in-waiting on the upper floor have been dismantled and sectioned off for displays. But there are areas of the Winter Palace that are off-limits, such as the suite of Baron Fredericks. What remains of it? Also of Count Tolstoy's, the last director of the Hermitage. Offices and restoration rooms abound throughout but again we do not have access. There are many books published on the Winter Palace/Hermitage with the majority relating to the art. One by Piotrovsky is a treasure of plans throughout the decades, photos, drawings. One day I hope a complete historical series on each reign is published, collected from all the archives not just the Hermitage.

Joanna

Offline Robert_Hall

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 6648
  • a site.
    • View Profile
Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
« Reply #294 on: March 23, 2009, 07:08:44 PM »
No, they are not "hiding anything.  The rooms you metion are put to other uses. The  bathrooms, toilets and  pantries were removed long ago, The idea at first was to remove the personal aspect of the palace, but retain the historical.  Renovation is a constant process. Any museum that was once a palace residence is  in always in a state of renovation. Even when it was an Imperial residence, each reign brought changes. Rooms rearranged, decor changed.  By the time N&A got hold of it,  there was not much left of the  old apartments anyway. They did not even spend much time there.
 It is one of the world's greatest museums. That is what  it should remain. Not a mausoleum to a bunch of dead Romanovs. There is plenty of history left as it is. And, just why would anyone be interested in Frederick's old rooms?
Life may not be the party we expected, but while we are here, might as well dance..

Do you want the truth, or my side of the story ?- Hank Ketchum.

Offline PAVLOV

  • Graf
  • ***
  • Posts: 427
    • View Profile
Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
« Reply #295 on: March 24, 2009, 04:55:23 AM »
Hi Joanna
Yes it would be fascinating to research the "back rooms' and what is left of the family rooms, even although they may be wardrobe rooms or bathrooms. There may be utility rooms which are too small for displays. I would also love to know what remains of the kitchens, which must have been huge. These are probably used for storage now.
It is a pity that these rooms are not revived in some form, as it would give the museum a more "lived in" feeling. Versailles is a good example, although the French have a different attitude towards their history, and different priorities.
I, for one, am fascinated by what happened behind the scenes.
Its such a shame that the Russians at that time just ripped everything out, but I am sure that huge parts of the palace have remained unseen for decades. Its such an enormous building.
I wonder what choices they would make today, had the rooms still been there ? I would hope that the rooms would have remained intact,as a different sort of display, and for history's sake, and not because many Russians have not come to terms with their last royal family. Pavlovsk has a beautiful bedroom, a similar display in the Winter palace would have been nice.
But perhaps one day. 
     

Offline Robert_Hall

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 6648
  • a site.
    • View Profile
Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
« Reply #296 on: March 24, 2009, 07:45:26 AM »
The back rooms are used for staff, curators and such, and offices.  Now, I could very well br mistaken about this, but I do not think the Winter Palace ever  had kitchens.  It was the practice at the time to have kitchens in a separate building. Hence the heating bowls in the china service.  This was because of fires, usually started in kitchens. They did have vast wine cellars though. But that was emptied out  during the  revolution and was used for storage  during the siege of WW2.
 As you mentioned Pavlosk, the Hermitage is a huge complex yet they display only the best of thier collections.  If they were to recreate some of the old rooms, they would have to remove the displays that are already there.
Life may not be the party we expected, but while we are here, might as well dance..

Do you want the truth, or my side of the story ?- Hank Ketchum.

Offline Reco

  • Graf
  • ***
  • Posts: 453
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
« Reply #297 on: March 24, 2009, 08:01:00 PM »
For a long time, I read memories of a cook. Kitchens were located in the basement.

Offline Robert_Hall

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 6648
  • a site.
    • View Profile
Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
« Reply #298 on: March 24, 2009, 08:40:12 PM »
Which cook was that Reco and.  what book  is his memories published in, if I may ask? I have heard so many stories about the  palace, I will not stand by anything,. Like I said, I could very  well be mistaken. For instance,, I was once told the Imperial Kitchens were near the stables.  After the bombing in 1880 and the assassination  in 1881, the IF  really did not use the place  much anyway.  Mostly for ceremonial functions.  I think there were  spinsters and widows as well as  functionaries in residence, but hardly enough to  require a full  kitchen.











i
Life may not be the party we expected, but while we are here, might as well dance..

Do you want the truth, or my side of the story ?- Hank Ketchum.

Offline pers

  • Boyar
  • **
  • Posts: 181
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
« Reply #299 on: March 25, 2009, 08:32:22 AM »
I have a HUGE book on the Winter Palace in Russian, so unfortunately I cannot translate, but it seems though as if the kitchens were in the basements directly below the living quarters of the members of the Imperial Family.  For instance the Dowager Empress Maria Feodorovna (wife of Paul I) had her own kitchen, Alexander I and his wife, their own below their quarters, which were the same rooms occupied respectively by Nicholas I and II and the wives, the Empresses Alexandra Feodorovna.  I would think that there were further kitchens that were used for the banquets which did not form part of the private kitchens of the Imperial Family.  I'll look again at it tonight and see what I can make out as my Russian is very basic.