Author Topic: Vases, Nicholas 1825-1855  (Read 3744 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline PeterBB

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 61
    • View Profile
Vases, Nicholas 1825-1855
« on: February 28, 2010, 07:38:36 AM »
Wanted to know more about the vases - can some tell more about these vases?


Offline Forum Admin

  • Administrator
  • Velikye Knyaz
  • *****
  • Posts: 4664
  • www.alexanderpalace.org
    • View Profile
    • Alexander Palace Time Machine
Re: Vases, Nicholas 1825-1855
« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2010, 09:35:17 AM »
The pattern is not that of any Imperial Service I am familiar with.  The IPF did do work for other members of the nobility, perhaps these were for someone other than the Imperial Family? It looks a "little" like the Catherine the Great Everyday service, but there were no swags of flowers, similarly for the Gatchina service of Nicholas I as well...

Offline PeterBB

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 61
    • View Profile
Re: Vases, Nicholas 1825-1855
« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2010, 10:35:03 AM »
Are the pattern not of Nicholas I? I sender a better picture of the monogram!


Offline Forum Admin

  • Administrator
  • Velikye Knyaz
  • *****
  • Posts: 4664
  • www.alexanderpalace.org
    • View Profile
    • Alexander Palace Time Machine
Re: Vases, Nicholas 1825-1855
« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2010, 11:24:01 AM »
The mark is only the mark of the Imperial Porcelain Manufacture for the period of Nicholas I. This does not mean that every single piece was MADE for the Emperor. Imperial pieces would have the Imperial cypher on the main body.

Offline PeterBB

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 61
    • View Profile
Re: Vases, Nicholas 1825-1855
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2010, 11:35:32 AM »
Of course I do not think that these vases were made to the emperor. You may not see that this monogram was on the inside of vases top ... I wonder just what it means?

Offline PeterBB

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 61
    • View Profile
Re: Vases, Nicholas 1825-1855
« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2010, 11:42:08 AM »

aleksandr pavlovich

  • Guest
Re: Vases, Nicholas 1825-1855
« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2010, 12:56:54 PM »
It is indeed puzzling.  In my experience (somewhat limited, though I own pieces of IPM with mark of Nicholas I), I have never seen the mark of the IPM anywhere other than on the underside of a piece.  Are there any markings UNDER the pieces?  If this interior rim marking was meant to be the "presentation" cypher of the Emperor, I would think that it would be more elaborate and in color/s other than the standard color of the usual mark of the period.  Also, I cannot with clarity determine the numeral.  Is it "I" or "II" - with shading ?  And, yes, I understand the historical implications, if it is a "II."     Regards,  AP  

Offline PeterBB

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 61
    • View Profile
Re: Vases, Nicholas 1825-1855
« Reply #7 on: February 28, 2010, 02:09:49 PM »
Dear Aleksandr Pavlovich,

I'm afraid you're right that it was II instead of I, I took a magnifying glass and looked at this and can see that there are traces of color, because it is so hard of the dye so it is difficult to see the eyes only! So these vases was a showcase of Tsar Nicholas II?

Regards.
Peter

aleksandr pavlovich

  • Guest
Re: Vases, Nicholas 1825-1855
« Reply #8 on: February 28, 2010, 02:48:15 PM »
Thank you, Peter, for your prompt reply.  Before I speculate further, are there any markings on the BOTTOM of the vases?  Regards,  AP

Offline PeterBB

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 61
    • View Profile
Re: Vases, Nicholas 1825-1855
« Reply #9 on: February 28, 2010, 03:07:22 PM »
That was a markings on the bottem at one of the vases but this gone not to read with eyes!

And a other question...How many different menue appears that the Tsar coronation ceremony?
What dates were the addition of 15, 19, 20, 23, 25, 26? Which of these dates is more unusual?

Offline Forum Admin

  • Administrator
  • Velikye Knyaz
  • *****
  • Posts: 4664
  • www.alexanderpalace.org
    • View Profile
    • Alexander Palace Time Machine
Re: Vases, Nicholas 1825-1855
« Reply #10 on: February 28, 2010, 03:07:54 PM »
This is still no Imperial Service I have ever seen. Also, things are a bit complicated by the fact the Cypher is not generally placed in such a place, for any reason. IPF pieces would be marked on the BOTTOM, and in the reign of NII would have included the date.  Further, the cypher would have been much more legible on an Imperial commission piece.

I have a suspicion that the markings you photographed are in fact FAKE underglaze marks to try to deceive.  I have seen dozens of pieces of unmarked German or French porcelains with later underglaze marks put on to try to increase the value to unsuspecting buyers to pass them off as genuine IPF pieces.

I have genuine IPF pieces from many reigns, including Nicholas II and have never seen anything like this. I am most suspicious.

aleksandr pavlovich

  • Guest
Re: Vases, Nicholas 1825-1855
« Reply #11 on: February 28, 2010, 03:44:16 PM »
Thank you, Peter, in reference to the bottoms of these vases.  Like the FA, I have examples going back over several reigns, and invariably, related markings are on the BOTTOMS and not as fanciful as the ones that you have.  Legible, yes, but almost schematic in execution, especially in reference to the Imperial Crown.  The date/s do appear generally on the pieces of the period of Nicholas II.  Your markings MAY be free-handed in execution, but to me, are reminicent almost of decals or stencilling.  IMO, the odd placement of the marks on your piece/s seem to catch the eye almost too readily, saying, "Look here, I have Imperial origin!"  In summary, I would doubt IP Factory provenance.  Good luck, and best regards,  AP
« Last Edit: February 28, 2010, 03:51:26 PM by aleksandr pavlovich »

Offline PeterBB

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 61
    • View Profile
Re: Vases, Nicholas 1825-1855
« Reply #12 on: February 28, 2010, 04:02:18 PM »
Thank you both two and I have taken note of by the statement. I have no more expectations on the vases, but want to hear out the view and I have received.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2010, 04:17:30 PM by PeterBB »