Author Topic: Are that a old russian jar?  (Read 13324 times)

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Offline PeterBB

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Are that a old russian jar?
« on: March 10, 2010, 11:30:41 AM »
Hello!

Do some know about the jar and I donīt know more than the jar have a Russian look and the imperial monogram!

Kindly,
PeterBB






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Re: Are that a old russian jar?
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2010, 04:17:10 PM »
Appears to be from the Imperial Glass Works during the reign of Alexander III but I have never seen anything similar to this before.

Naslednik Norvezhskiy

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Re: Are that a old russian jar?
« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2010, 04:25:57 PM »
The bright colours, geometrical pattern and "folksy look" remind me of Nicholas II's earthenware coronation beaker (Google Image it to see it) manufactured to be distributed to the masses at Khodynka Field.

Offline PeterBB

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Re: Are that a old russian jar?
« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2010, 04:36:44 PM »
It's a good tip when using this Khodinka cups - I have not thought about that it was a similar pattern as this jar.

But you know maybe what made was this and do you think maybe it might be a jar of Russian Alexander III of Russia's time?

aleksandr pavlovich

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Re: Are that a old russian jar?
« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2010, 04:58:18 PM »
Attention Replies # 2 and 3:  There were TWO better-known "Coronation Cups."  The common one (sometimes called "The Cup of Sorrows"), to which I am sure you are referring, Fyodor Petrovich, is flat-enameled over METAL (NOT earthenware).  This is the one with the geometric "strap-work" in the style of this jug.  The EARTHENWARE variety was in monochrome colors over raised and molded bodies.  I believe that there are seven different (separate colors) of manufacture that have been identified for this earthenware cup. A lesser number of this kind of cup survived, and is not seen as frequently, because of breakage. I have examples of both kinds in my collection.  Best regards to you both.  AP
« Last Edit: March 10, 2010, 05:07:38 PM by aleksandr pavlovich »

Offline PeterBB

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Re: Are that a old russian jar?
« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2010, 05:13:35 PM »
To Alaksandr Pavlovich,

Do you see the glass jar before and do you know some more about the jar?

aleksandr pavlovich

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Re: Are that a old russian jar?
« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2010, 05:47:20 PM »
Unfortunately, Peter, I can tell you really not much about the jug.  I have never seen much Imperial Russian glassware in my experiences of collecting.  Glassware, in general, makes me "keep my distance," particularly in relation to "reproductions," out-right fakes, etc. There was , of course, a period of time beginning in the latter half of the 19th century, that the "geometric" / "folksy" style was employed in decoration of various items.  IMO, the decoration on this jug has faint "echoes" of that style, but I am not familiar (in my limited knowledge) with that shape.  I agree that the monogram is the cypher of Emperor Alexander III, but were such marks PAINTED on the bottom?  It would seem to me that they would wear away quickly (or could, conversely, be ADDED).   Is the mark shown, painted or etched on/into the glass?  To me it seems clearly PAINTED.  Also, are those scratch marks on the central bottom of the jug?  IMO, it is a very strange pattern of scratching/wear.  Sorry not to be of more definitive help.  AP
« Last Edit: March 10, 2010, 06:01:17 PM by aleksandr pavlovich »

Offline PeterBB

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Re: Are that a old russian jar?
« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2010, 05:52:08 PM »
I see and this was also a problem for me!

aleksandr pavlovich

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Re: Are that a old russian jar?
« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2010, 05:56:13 PM »
Peter, please note my just-added thought about the central bottom pattern of "scratch marks" in my Reply #6.     AP
« Last Edit: March 10, 2010, 05:59:37 PM by aleksandr pavlovich »

Offline PeterBB

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Re: Are that a old russian jar?
« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2010, 05:59:42 PM »
These scratch was on the bottom inside of the jar .. after an unsuccessful conferences for the rest!

aleksandr pavlovich

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Re: Are that a old russian jar?
« Reply #10 on: March 10, 2010, 06:05:32 PM »
Peter, referencing/quoting your Reply #9:  "These scratch was on the bottom inside of the jar...."   In the close-up photo, please note that on the left arch of the crown, the left upright stroke of the capital "A," and the first "I" of the numeral "III," the scratch marks pass THROUGH and apparently remove/deface portions of those items mentioned that are painted on the OUTSIDE bottom of the jar!  Of course, they could be OTHER scratches, from the exterior.  AP
« Last Edit: March 10, 2010, 06:18:40 PM by aleksandr pavlovich »

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Re: Are that a old russian jar?
« Reply #11 on: March 10, 2010, 06:34:54 PM »
It suddenly occurred to me. This piece while possible old Russian is NOT from the IGW.  I have seen and had some pieces from the Imperial Glass Works and ALL were either unmarked or marked with an incised crown and cypher, NEVER a painted mark.  Not original IPW in my opinion...

Constantinople

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Re: Are that a old russian jar?
« Reply #12 on: March 16, 2010, 11:55:48 AM »
This is just a guess.
From the shape of the jug, with a low centre of gravity and a wide base and the anchor and Alll, I would say that this was a jug that was acquired for one of Alexander lll's yachts, possibly the Tsaravena or Polar Star

Constantinople

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Re: Are that a old russian jar?
« Reply #13 on: March 17, 2010, 03:30:10 AM »
My mistake
   the jug does not have a low centre of gravity but i still believe it was acquired for one of Alexander lll's yachts.

Constantinople

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Re: Are that a old russian jar?
« Reply #14 on: March 17, 2010, 10:15:54 AM »
contact this person
she will be able to tell you what it is
Tamara Malinina - Associate Professor, Doctor of Philosophy, leading scholarly researcher, curator of Russian art glass in the State Hermitage. Author of more than 70 publications