Author Topic: Klementiy Nagorniy  (Read 70632 times)

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Offline Inok Nikolai

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Re: Klementiy Nagorniy
« Reply #165 on: August 17, 2013, 03:18:28 PM »
Inok Nikolai

I'm glad too. Is it possible to post a larger version of the picture so that we can get a clearer view of all the Martyrs?

Ann

Well, posted elsewhere on the Forum is this collection of icons:
http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=11796.msg337390#msg337390

Which has this close-up of the bottom part of the icon:
http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/ikone/edb91f55.jpg

The Royal Martyrs are in the center, Grand Duchess Elizabeth and Sister Barbara are on the left, with the other Grand Dukes and Princes;
On the right are the retainers and servants:
Next to G. D. Tatiana is Anna Demidova, then Vasily Dologorukov, Iliya Tatishchev, Dr. Eugene Botkin (holding a medicine box), Catherine Schneider, Anastasia Hendrikova, Ivan Sednev, Klement Nagorny, Ivan Haritonov (in his cook's apron!), and Alexis Trupp.
инок Николай

Offline Kalafrana

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Re: Klementiy Nagorniy
« Reply #166 on: August 18, 2013, 03:53:27 AM »
Thank you. There are lots of other people there as well. Who are they all?

I'm also slightly confused about the 'status' (not a good word but the best I can think of) of all these in the Orthodox Church. As I understand it (and please correct me if I'm wrong), Nicholas and family are Passion Bearers because they did not actually die for the faith. However, Elizabeth is a Martyr, and so are various others, including Vassili Dolgoruky. Please could you explain.

Ann

Offline Inok Nikolai

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Re: Klementiy Nagorniy
« Reply #167 on: August 19, 2013, 09:15:45 AM »
Thank you. There are lots of other people there as well. Who are they all?

The icon is meant to be representative of all the New Martyrs of Russia, so there are members of every group of Russian society. The New Martyrs number in the hundreds of thousands, if not millions.

The original icon hangs in the church at the Russian Orthodox Monastery of the Holy Trinity in Jordanville, NY USA. It's approx. four feet by three feet, or maybe even five foot by four, so, of course, the figures and inscriptions are much more visible there.

On line you may be able to find a better copy.

Look at the full copy here:
http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff287/VelkokneznaMaria/Romanovs%20in%20art/I
kona8.jpg

At the top, center is our Saviour, flanked by the Mother of God and St. John the Baptist. On either side of them are other Russian saints: SS. Vladimir and Olga, Boris and Gleb, St. Seraphim of Sarov, St. Sergius, etc.

In the very center, holding the Cross, are Patriarch Tikhon, the New Confessor for the Faith, and Metropolitan Vladimir of Kiev, the first hierarch to be martyred. He was shot by the Bolsheviks in January of 1918. At that time the All-Russian Church Council was still in session in Moscow. The members of the council held a memorial service for Metropolitan Vladimir, and decreed that the day of his martyrdom should be kept as the day to commemorate all those then being persecuted for the faith. So, the ROCOR bishops in 1981 were simply fulfilling the will of the council.

On either side of Patriarch Tikhon and Metropolitan Vladimir are other bishops who were killed for the faith. Then there are groups of monks and nuns and parish clergy. (On the original icon one is able to read the names in the halos.)

In the posting above it was pointed out who are next to the Royal Martyrs.

In addition, the close-up shows those next to Grand Duchess Elizabeth and Barbara:
http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/ikone/edb91f55.jpg

Grand Duke Michael is between G. D. Olga and Elizabeth. Further to the left are those who were cast down the mine shaft with Grand Duchess Elizabeth: the Constantinovichi Princes, etc.

At the bottom of the icon are representatives of all the classes and walks of life in the Russian Empire: soldiers, men, women, children of every rank. As the church services put it "whose names are known to Thee alone, O God".

The names inscribed in columns on either side of the icon are those of other martyrs whose lives are known, but who are not depicted on the icon itself. As I said, the icon can only represent the great host of new martyrs.


Quote
I'm also slightly confused about the 'status' (not a good word but the best I can think of) of all these in the Orthodox Church. As I understand it (and please correct me if I'm wrong), Nicholas and family are Passion Bearers because they did not actually die for the faith. However, Elizabeth is a Martyr, and so are various others, including Vassili Dolgoruky. Please could you explain.
Ann


I understand your question, but it is not really a matter of rank or status among the saints. The "categories" (again, not the best word) are those of this world. Obviously, in the Kingdom the saints will not be segregated into groups or ranks.
And if one has been saved and attained the Kingdom of heaven, it matters little what "status" one was given by the faithful on earth. The Orthodox Church does not have any strict, legalistic stratification of the saints or their prestige, so I wouldn't read too much into it.

Hope this has helped.
I. N.
инок Николай

Offline Inok Nikolai

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Re: Klementiy Nagorniy
« Reply #168 on: August 19, 2013, 01:05:31 PM »
P.S. The titles given to the different saints simply convey what many perceive as being their chief attribute or accomplishment, but the titles are not mutually exclusive.

A martyr is someone who died for the faith; a wonder-worker is noted for his miracles; an "unmercenary healer" is a doctor who healed people for free, and often miraculously; a Passion-bearer is someone who was put to death unjustly, often out of envy of their pious or righteous way of life, etc.

But one and the same saint can be both a martyr and a wonder-worker, or an unmercenary healer and martyr.

However, in the case of the Royal Martyrs, it does seem that the Moscow Patriarchate, judging from its own official pronouncements on the question, treated the Imperial family rather condescendingly: "Well, they don't quite make it as true 'martyrs', but we will grant that they could be honored as 'Passion-bearers'.

Such pedantry seems out of place and only tends to confuse the faithful and non-Orthodox alike.
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Offline Kalafrana

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Re: Klementiy Nagorniy
« Reply #169 on: August 20, 2013, 04:30:33 AM »
.any thanks.

Ann