Author Topic: Klementiy Nagorniy  (Read 70680 times)

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Offline Missy-T

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Re: Klementiy Nagorniy
« Reply #45 on: March 30, 2007, 04:46:28 PM »
Isn't Nagorny in this picture to?  :-\

Offline Laura Mabee

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Re: Klementiy Nagorniy
« Reply #46 on: March 30, 2007, 06:36:17 PM »
Isn't Nagorny in this picture to?  :-\
I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure thats Derevenko.
From Left to Right:
Pierre Gilliard, Alexei, Olga, and Derevenko

Offline dmitri

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Re: Klementiy Nagorniy
« Reply #47 on: July 08, 2007, 12:14:38 PM »
Nagorny was a devoted servant to the imperial family and Alexis. Derevenko betrayed them and even bullied Alexis after the revolution. I have always felt sorry for Nagorny. He deserved a happier end.

Offline Sarushka

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Re: Klementiy Nagorniy
« Reply #48 on: July 08, 2007, 01:54:18 PM »
Derevenko betrayed them and even bullied Alexis after the revolution. I have always felt sorry for Nagorny. He deserved a happier end.

According to Charlotte Zeepvat in Romanov Autumn, there is evidence to suggest that Derevenko in fact did NOT betray the imperial family. Anna Vyrubova is the only source of the story of Derevenko bullying Aleksei. IMO, if there's any evidence to the contrary, Derevenko deserves the benefit of the doubt after so many years of unquestioningly loyal service.
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Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: Klementiy Nagorniy
« Reply #49 on: July 21, 2007, 02:37:08 PM »
Derevenko betrayed them and even bullied Alexis after the revolution. I have always felt sorry for Nagorny. He deserved a happier end.

According to Charlotte Zeepvat in Romanov Autumn, there is evidence to suggest that Derevenko in fact did NOT betray the imperial family. Anna Vyrubova is the only source of the story of Derevenko bullying Aleksei. IMO, if there's any evidence to the contrary, Derevenko deserves the benefit of the doubt after so many years of unquestioningly loyal service.

Not only does he deserve the benefit of the doubt, all evidence apart from Vyrubova indicates that the Sailor Derevenko remained loyal to the Imperial Family. He died in 1921 while fighting for the Whites. He was scheduled to go into exile with Alexei - when the PG decided he could not go. It is doubtful that the couple would have had him come along had he done what AV said he did.

Historybuff_262

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Re: Klementiy Nagorniy
« Reply #50 on: July 21, 2007, 04:03:37 PM »
that's true. why would they want derevenko to come if he had bullied Alexei?

wouldn't we have heard in Alexei's diary or someone else's diary if it was true what Derevenko did?

oh, and why didn't the provisional government let Derevenko go with the imperial family?


p.s. does anybody have any information at all about Nagorny's family?

BeautyQueen

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Re: Klementiy Nagorniy
« Reply #51 on: October 12, 2007, 04:18:42 PM »
We all know that a solider tried to steal Alexei's gold chain from him. But does anyone know Alexei's reaction to this incident?

Offline Sarushka

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Re: Klementiy Nagorniy
« Reply #52 on: October 12, 2007, 05:07:29 PM »
Actually, that story may be a myth. Here's a post I wrote about Nagorny and the gold chain on another thread:

According to one source, that story was a rumor perpetuated by Prince George Lvov. Lvov claimed that he and Nagorny were imprisoned in Ekaterinburg together, and that Nagorny himself told the story of protesting the theft of a gold cross belonging to Aleksei. However, Lvov is apparently not a credible witness. He informed President Wilson in a letter that he had been imprisoned in Ekaterinburg at the end of February 1918, then escaped after five weeks and fled across Siberia, arriving in Vladivostock in July. That makes it *impossible* for Lvov to have been in the Ekaterinburg City Prison on May 27 -- the *only* night Nagorny spent there. Nagorny and Ivan Sednev were then shot on May 31, eliminating any further possiblity of communicating with Lvov.

Lvov told a number of wildly false tales about the Romanovs' captivity, often contradicting himself in the process.



I also think it's significant that neither Nicholas or Alexandra's diaries mention the alleged gold chain incident. Instead, they both seem puzzled and troubled by the sudden removal of Nagorny and Sednev.


You may find more by doing a search for "Nagorny Lvov."
« Last Edit: January 24, 2013, 05:00:14 AM by Svetabel »
THE LOST CROWN: A Novel of Romanov Russia -- now in paperback!
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BeautyQueen

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Re: Klementiy Nagorniy
« Reply #53 on: October 12, 2007, 08:28:47 PM »
Thank you very much. I will look at those topics for more information.

Nicole123

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Re: Klementiy Nagorniy
« Reply #54 on: October 28, 2007, 10:09:40 AM »
When Alexei was alone in the bedroom, a guard snuck in bedroom and tried to take the gold chain. Alexei probably screamed and was putting up a good fight. And I guess Nicholas II, Nagorny, and Dr. Botkin heard the incident happening and ran into the bedroom, and Nagorny punched the guard. And then the guard dropped the chain, and Nagorny gave it back to Alexei. And then the guard took Nagorny away, and later shot him.

Offline Sarushka

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Re: Klementiy Nagorniy
« Reply #55 on: October 28, 2007, 05:18:58 PM »
When Alexei was alone in the bedroom, a guard snuck in bedroom and tried to take the gold chain. Alexei probably screamed and was putting up a good fight. And I guess Nicholas II, Nagorny, and Dr. Botkin heard the incident happening and ran into the bedroom, and Nagorny punched the guard. And then the guard dropped the chain, and Nagorny gave it back to Alexei. And then the guard took Nagorny away, and later shot him.

That's how the story goes, but it is possibly only that -- a story made up by someone to gain attention because of the Romanovs' death.
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BeautyQueen

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Re: Klementiy Nagorniy
« Reply #56 on: October 28, 2007, 06:05:47 PM »
It happened. It's NOT fake.

Offline Sarushka

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Re: Klementiy Nagorniy
« Reply #57 on: October 29, 2007, 07:53:11 AM »
No need to shout. May I ask what source makes you so certain?
THE LOST CROWN: A Novel of Romanov Russia -- now in paperback!
"A dramatic, powerful narrative and a masterful grasp of life in this vanished world." ~Greg King

BeautyQueen

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Re: Klementiy Nagorniy
« Reply #58 on: October 29, 2007, 09:06:23 AM »
Sorrt Sarushka. But I really do think this event did happen. It was in the movie and there were account written about it.

Offline Sarushka

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Re: Klementiy Nagorniy
« Reply #59 on: October 29, 2007, 12:05:13 PM »
Which movie -- Nicholas and Alexandra? Many parts of that movie that are not accurate -- Tatiana exposing herself to a guard, for example. That certainly never happened.


Here's why I'm skeptical about the story of Nagorny and the gold cross:

The only sources I've found for the gold cross incident are Gilliard and Gibbs. Neither Gilliard nor Gibbes were ever allowed into the Ipatiev house, so they could not have witnessed it themselves. They did not speak to Nagorny when they saw him being taken away, so Nagorny could not have told them. In fact, all the servants who lived in the Ipatiev house at the time of the incident were eventually murdered. According to House of Special Purpose, Gilliard and Gibbs apparently heard the story from a man named Prince George Lvov. Unfortunately, Prince Lvov isn't very reliable. He told all kinds of stories about the Romanovs -- that the entire imperial family had been murdered with bayonets and revolvers in the cell next to his, for example -- so I have a hard time believing him. There's reason to doubt whether Lvov was even in prison at the same time as Nagorny. For me, the most compelling evidence against Lvov's story is that neither Nicholas nor Alexandra mention the theft of a gold cross in their diaries. In fact, both of them wrote that they did not know why Nagorny and Sednev were removed from the house.


I'm not saying the story of the gold cross is impossible. I'm saying we have no credible witnesses to the event, and I personally have doubts based on the little evidence we do have. If you choose to believe Lvov's story, that's ok -- you're absolutely entitled to your opinion and your own view of the evidence. I only object to you presenting your opinion as if it's an undisputed fact.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2007, 12:07:56 PM by Sarushka »
THE LOST CROWN: A Novel of Romanov Russia -- now in paperback!
"A dramatic, powerful narrative and a masterful grasp of life in this vanished world." ~Greg King