Author Topic: Complete series of Spiritual ranks/titles  (Read 4169 times)

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Offline nena

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Complete series of Spiritual ranks/titles
« on: April 19, 2010, 08:13:22 AM »
I have always been doubting about these words on regarding Rasputin. What is the more correct title for him? Radzinsky uses 'starets' so I thought it is proper title. However, Belochka once kindly corrected me stating that his actual title was 'strannik'. So I would like to know the difference between the words?  There's third name - moujik (muzhik). I understand that 'Grishka' must come from his name, Gregory (In fact, 'Grishka' is a diminutive).

Russian writer Dostoyevsky wrote an extensive meaning of the word 'starets' in his book 'The Karamazov Brothers'. Something like that starets is a man who takes your own will into his soul. There is a quote in Massie's 'Nicholas and Alexandra' as well.

From Wikipedia:

A starets (Russian: стрец, fem. стрица) is an elder of a Russian Orthodox monastery who functions as venerated adviser and teacher. Elders or spiritual fathers are charismatic spiritual leaders whose wisdom stems from God as obtained from ascetic experience.

However, the same name 'Rasputin'  is derived from old - Russian 'rasputa' (With no way). It has always been difficult to define his actual rank, since he was not a monk, but he was a member of the Khlysts. If anyone can reveal my doubts about his the most proper title.
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Re: Complete series of Spiritual ranks/titles
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2010, 09:46:49 AM »
Rasputin was absolutely NOT a Khlysti.  Spiridovitch spent years researching this point, including while Rasputin was alive and Spiridovitch was chief of Secret Security police for the Emperor. He states without question, and after lengthy analysis in his biography of Rasputin "Raspoutine" that the man whatever he may have been was not a member of the Khlysti.


Offline nena

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Re: Complete series of Spiritual ranks/titles
« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2010, 02:25:37 PM »
My question in fact was explanation of those terms I mentioned in my previous post.

I am not a real witness of his life, (so I can't tell anything more), but certainly Madame Vyrubova was :

During research, in Vyrubova's little house there was found unusual text under the name 'Secrets of Khlysting'. And in 'the subject', she states : When the newspapers started publishing rumors that indicated Rasputin may have been a member of the Khlysts, I asked my acquaintance Ipolyte Hoffsteter to explain to me it.....

Radzinsky's 'Rasputin File.

Now I wonder, do the public baths (and all things at his house's cellar) have something to do with the Khlysts and all those 'rumored orgies' in Pokrovskoe where he used to spend time in his youth? But Secret Police didn't follow him during the entire time of his life. I would say that remains to be a mystery. I may check the Russian resources.
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Re: Complete series of Spiritual ranks/titles
« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2010, 03:38:09 PM »
Radzinsky is not the most reliable source. Spiridovitch and his men thoroughly investigated Rasputin during his life, and Spiridovitch continued, especially  interviewing people who knew Rasputin after the Revolution.  There is NO QUESTION that Rasputin was NOT a member of the Khlyst sect. By the way, Spiridovitch IS a Russian source. A First Hand one...much more reliable than Radzinsky.

Offline nena

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Re: Complete series of Spiritual ranks/titles
« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2010, 08:12:50 AM »
Thank you. Most likely it was a rumored story, caused by those local newspaper.

Minister Kokovtsev (who is known for being one of Rasputin's enemies) stated that he was a member of that sect. I think it is just because he wanted to destroyed 'good image' of him.

See:

The second case of "Khlystyism" Rasputin 1912

The decree (Ukaze)of Nicholas II:

http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A4%D0%B0%D0%B9%D0%BB:%D0%A3%D0%BA%D0%B0%D0%B7.jpg

In January 1912, the Duma has declared his relationship with Rasputin, and in February 1912, Nicholas II ordered VK Sabler to resume work of the Holy Synod of the case on "Khlystyism" Rasputin and the pass for report Rodzianko, "and the commandant of the palace and gave Dedyulin he Case Tobolsk Theological Consistory, which contained the beginning of the Investigative Process by the accusation of belonging to Rasputin hlystovskoy sect. ". (Source - Vladimir Kokovtsev - 'From my past, 1903 - 1919') On 26 February 1912 at an audience Rodzianko invited the king to expel all of the peasant. Archbishop Anthony (Khrapovitskii) wrote openly that Rasputin was a whip and participates in rejoicings.

From Wikipedia.

I have to admit, many 'true facts' are in fact wrong and rumored, just caused, as a consequence of many other facts. So I'd believe to Spiridovich.

Another reliable source, Count Vladimir Nicholaeivich Voeikov is his book 'With the Tsar and without the Tsar' says that Holy Synod 'inspected the views of life and Rasputin's life just to prove that he was a member of a sect that harms principles of Orthodoxy'. Voeikov also blames newspapers and journalists that published fake information on regarding his membership to other religions but Orthodoxy.

Now I owe an apologize for my prejudicial sentence where I , (from my ignorance) claimed that he was the member of that sect. I only consider that all those journalists published complete wrong facts, as Voeikov states.   
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