Author Topic: Forum Admin's icon  (Read 5648 times)

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Offline pandajones

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Forum Admin's icon
« on: April 19, 2010, 10:22:10 AM »
Hi Admin!

I'm new here and I couldn't help but notice your profile icon: your double-headed eagle looks exactly like the crest I have on some plates I inherited from my Russian grandmother. These plates aren't incredibly ornate--white porcelain with gold rimming and the small double-headed eagle on top--but they have marks on the back that lead me to believe they are authentic (one has an "A" with a crown on top; the other has an "N": there are dates beneath the marks that correspond to the reigns of Alexander and Nicholas II, respectively). I was wondering if you also had these plates or if you (or anyone else on here) could tell me more about them.

Thanks to everyone for helping!

Offline Forum Admin

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Re: Forum Admin's icon
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2010, 10:56:24 AM »
My icon is indeed the Imperial Eagle from a Blue bordered "Tsarskoe Selsy" service plate from the Nicholas II era. You describe 'everyday' service plates from the Imperial Porcelain Factory as being those you inherited. Send me photos and I can help you further.

Rob

Offline pandajones

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Re: Forum Admin's icon
« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2010, 11:03:48 AM »
Great! I'll post some tonight. Thanks for your help!

aleksandr pavlovich

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Re: Forum Admin's icon
« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2010, 02:22:34 PM »
Attention:  "pandajones":  I would agree with the FA that your plates are most likely of period pieces, but please note:   In my experience, the period Tsarskoye Selo Nicholas II "everyday" service DOES have the BLUE banding/border, with the eagle's wings more "upright," and has the collar of the Order of St. Andrew surrounding the shield on its breast  On the other hand, the earlier period so-called "Coronation Service" of Alexander III has a "fuller" eagle with wider/more open wings, a "tighter" Collar of Saint Andrew surrounding the breast shield, and NO BLUE BAND, simply white and gold bandings.  Thus you get the cypher of AIII on the reverse (of the "Coronation Service"), AND if replacement pieces were made for that service during the reign of Nicholas II, you would then have the reverse markings of "HII." One thing to look for:  On the AIII Coronation Service, the Saint George figure on the shield on the breast of the eagle,"faces" LEFT, while on the Tsarskoe Selo Service, the figure faces RIGHT. I have some of both, obtained from an especially trusted and reliable dealer in Imperial Russian items. Because of the original (and later period replacement) numbers made, neither are particularly "rare." Of course, especially for collectors, CONDITION is everything, but in your case, the "sentimental value" is the overpowering value!   Best regards,  AP
« Last Edit: April 19, 2010, 02:53:23 PM by aleksandr pavlovich »

Offline pandajones

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Re: Forum Admin's icon
« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2010, 08:42:56 PM »
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs109.snc3/15695_865115244960_928725_48627756_2286729_n.jpg
http://hphotos-sjc1.fbcdn.net/hs109.snc3/15695_865116677090_928725_48627850_3105219_n.jpg
http://hphotos-snc3.fbcdn.net/hs109.snc3/15695_865116726990_928725_48627851_8370210_n.jpg
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs109.snc3/15695_865116756930_928725_48627852_1110634_n.jpg

Hi Aleksandr,

Thank you so much for the info!! It looks like I came to the right place! I posted some links to pictures above (I hope they work.) As you can see, the plate is very chipped, but my mother has some that are in perfect condition. Do the photos tell you (or anybody) anything else? Again, I so appreciate the help! These have been in my family for a while and we've all been quite mystified by them.  :)

Thanks so much!
PJ

Offline Nicolá De Valerón

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Re: Forum Admin's icon
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2010, 08:53:38 PM »
PJ,

Maybe it's not exactly suitable theme for me as a Russian military buff, but I can clearly see the familiar for me sign of Alexander III and the numbers 89 (I think year). I don't know what it means (maybe it was made during the Alexander III times), but with no doubt our dear antiques experts will help you more professionaly;).

Nicola.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2010, 08:57:21 PM by Nicolá De Valerón »
"I think that if Shakespeare lived in our times he would not be able to write. Many of his works are not welcome on stage nowadays: The Merchant of Venice – anti-Semitism, Othello – racism, The Taming of the Shrew – sexism, Romeo and Juliet - hideous heterosexual show..." - Vladimir Bukovsky.

Offline pandajones

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Re: Forum Admin's icon
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2010, 09:02:14 PM »
Hi Nicola,

I think (hope?) your guess is probably an accurate one, or at least that's what my family and I have thought all these years. Thanks for your input!

PJ

aleksandr pavlovich

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Re: Forum Admin's icon
« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2010, 06:53:43 AM »
Referencing "pandajones" and your posting # 4:  Yes, it does appear that you have a piece of IPF output of the reign of Alexander III. The design is virtually identical to earlier pieces from his reign that I own, including the inner gold circle, the blue ribbons issuant from the Imperial Crown and the left-facing St. George.  The numerals "89", as suspected, would undoubtedly refer to the date of manufacture of that particular piece.  Since the date is late in his reign, I would believe it to be a period replacement (for the usual loss due to breakage), or an expanded need to increase the service for whatever reason.  The chips could be professionally repaired, but the costs can be sometimes prohibitive. A perfect piece is not really "rare," and examples are scattered all over the world, thus I would enjoy it for the family association and "let it be!"  Regards,  AP
« Last Edit: April 20, 2010, 07:05:42 AM by aleksandr pavlovich »

Offline Michael HR

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Re: Forum Admin's icon
« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2010, 07:45:11 AM »
Wish my Grandmother had left me something like that! How very lucky you are and I am sure some of us here are green with envy
Remembering the Imperial Corps Des Pages - The Spirit of Imperial Russia


Offline Forum Admin

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Re: Forum Admin's icon
« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2010, 09:57:21 AM »
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs109.snc3/15695_865115244960_928725_48627756_2286729_n.jpg
http://hphotos-sjc1.fbcdn.net/hs109.snc3/15695_865116677090_928725_48627850_3105219_n.jpg
http://hphotos-snc3.fbcdn.net/hs109.snc3/15695_865116726990_928725_48627851_8370210_n.jpg
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs109.snc3/15695_865116756930_928725_48627852_1110634_n.jpg

Hi Aleksandr,

Thank you so much for the info!! It looks like I came to the right place! I posted some links to pictures above (I hope they work.) As you can see, the plate is very chipped, but my mother has some that are in perfect condition. Do the photos tell you (or anybody) anything else? Again, I so appreciate the help! These have been in my family for a while and we've all been quite mystified by them.  :)

Thanks so much!
PJ

Your plate is Coronation Service. First ordered and used for the Coronation of Alexander III, then subsequently used at the Winter Palace as the Banquet Service. Literally thousands and thousands of pieces were made in the initial order, and thousands more produced to replace breakage right through his reign and that of Nicholas II literally until 1916. Then sold off by Antiqvariat in the 1920s in stacks to tourists and sold by Hammer Galleries in department stores in the US in the 1930s! In perfect condition, worth $500-700. With the substantial crack, virtually worthless. Perhaps $50-75...

« Last Edit: April 20, 2010, 10:00:02 AM by Forum Admin »

Offline pandajones

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Re: Forum Admin's icon
« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2010, 10:38:52 AM »
What a fun bit of history I have--I had no idea! Thank you all so much for your help--this was far beyond what I expected. Cheers to all of you!

PJ

aleksandr pavlovich

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Re: Forum Admin's icon
« Reply #11 on: April 20, 2010, 10:56:22 AM »
A pleasure!  May I refer you to the web site:  "John Atzbach Imperial Russian Antiques and Art."  Select the heading "Porcelain" and go through the pages, initially pp. 8 and 12. There you will not only find "The Coronation Service," but the "Everyday Tsarskoe Selo Service" examples for sale, but other esoteric pieces (on other pages under "Porcelain"), such as from a French service for the Grand Duke Sergei A. and GD Elizabeth, a monogrammed service of the Empress Alexandra F., etc.   Regards,  AP