Author Topic: "Marriages" with other dynasties  (Read 9807 times)

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Offline cebi26

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"Marriages" with other dynasties
« on: June 20, 2010, 10:59:37 AM »
Always is said that be part of the Romanov dynasty was something of great importance and prestige, but in history, the monarchies placed as the "center" of Europe were England, France or Spain, And, from what I saw, there weren't many marriages between Romanov princes and princesses with members of those empires, which surprised me. How was the prestige of the Romanovs in the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries? Why not happened marriages agreements between Russia and the rest of these countries?

Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: "Marriages" with other dynasties
« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2010, 10:56:58 AM »
Russia had some unique problems during this period that defined it as a nation but also limited the marital choices of Romanov dynasts. Beginning with Tsar Michael, the power in the country rested with the boyar class, so Michael's and Alexis' children all married other Russians from the boyar class. Peter the Great was also married off into that class, but rebelled. He shut away his boyar wife and married a Lithuanian peasant. Peter was succeeded by the peasant, 2 of his grandsons, his daughter, and a niece. One of the grandsons, Peter III, married Catharine the Great, and her descendants tended to marry into other European dynasties.

The primary reason for the lack of intermarriage with other dynasties was Russia's extreme xenophobia, which was even evident in the reign of Nicholas II when his wife of 20 years was referred to as "the German woman".

Offline Vecchiolarry

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Re: "Marriages" with other dynasties
« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2010, 09:53:43 PM »
Hi,

Going way back, we do have Anna of Kiev marrying Henry I of France in the 11th century.
Their line did carry on the Capets & the Valois, but I'm not sure about the Bourbons...

Also, in reverse, we have Sophia Palaeologue coming from Byzantium and marrying Ivan III (the Great) in the 15th century...

Anna Pavlovna married William II of the Netherlands in the 19th century..

and 

Maria Alexandrovna married Alfred of Edinburgh in the 19th century also...

I don't know of any Russian - Spanish marriages??


Larry

Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: "Marriages" with other dynasties
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2010, 11:30:54 PM »
 Hi Larry. The french connection is a stretch, but it is there. The Valois  went to the Bourbons  Vesuvius Henri IV, son-in-law of Henri II. So,  through his wife, the connection remained. Still does, I imagine,  in the Orleans. . Like I said, it is a stretch. BTW way, the actual marriage  with Henri was BEFORE the  Great Schism,.
 After that [1054] Orthodox= Catholic marriages were unlikely and difficult.. They did happen at times,  but usually without the Pope's approval.
 Someone once mentioned a Russia/Hapsburg  connection but I do not know the details. Never really looked into it.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2011, 09:06:20 AM by Alixz »
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Offline Kalafrana

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Re: "Marriages" with other dynasties
« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2010, 05:36:32 AM »
The Bourbons descended from the Capets. As from 1328, the French throne passed exclusively down the male line. The later Valois were not good breeders (with a distinct tendency for men to die without issue), so that on the death of Henri III in 1588, the heir through the male line was Henri IV, who was related to him in the male line through Louis IX, who had died in 1270.

Russia was not a major power until the reign of Peter the Great, so the major European dynasties would not have taken much interest in marriages with the Romanovs and their predecessors. After that, the Russian throne was pretty unstable (Ivan VI was deposed, Peter III and Paul were murdered), quite apart from the religious issue.

Ann

Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: "Marriages" with other dynasties
« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2010, 02:03:48 PM »
I did say, the link with France was a stretch, and the was never a question of succeeding to the  throne of France.  The Russian would have been Rurikans, I think, as this was  before the Romanovs were on the scene.
 When I have time  to wade through  it, I will look for the  supposed connection to the House of Austria. I have some very complex genealogies of the Hamsburgs, but they are difficult and time consuming.
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Offline Kalafrana

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Re: "Marriages" with other dynasties
« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2010, 03:07:39 AM »
Just me being a pedant!

Ann

Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: "Marriages" with other dynasties
« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2010, 07:22:22 AM »
No problem, Ann. This is an interesting subject, for a change. There may be other connections  neiither one of has thought about- or forgotten !
Life may not be the party we expected, but while we are here, might as well dance..

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Offline Kalafrana

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Re: "Marriages" with other dynasties
« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2010, 07:35:07 AM »
Russia was really quite a latecomer on the European marriage market, and it was only in the 19th century that Romanovs started to marry members of major dynasties - I would suggest that the first top level marriage was that between the future Nicholas I and Charlotte of Prussia in 1817.

Ann

Offline kmerov

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Re: "Marriages" with other dynasties
« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2010, 07:53:40 AM »
The reason for this was that there of course were few Romanovs to marry foreign royalty in the first place, and also the fact that there were few major protestant countries, the protestant kingdoms being The UK, Sweden, Prussia, Denmark-Norway (prior to the 19th century). Then came the smaller sovereign German states, which provided all of Europes grander kingdoms wth spouses.
Paul I's daughter, GDss Alexandra married an Austrian Archduke, but that was not common practise. And then there was the failed marriage with Gustav IV of Sweden in 1796.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2011, 09:07:58 AM by Alixz »

Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: "Marriages" with other dynasties
« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2010, 08:21:15 AM »
Thanks, Kmerov. Was that the only Austrian link ?
 Of course, the most influential  foreign marriage that of Peter III  to Catherine of Anhalt-Zerbst. Whoever  would have thought such a minor dynasty would have brought such important changes to Russia ?
 And Paul's consort,  a  Wurtemburg princess  provided the  foundations of the future of the monarchy & dynasty.
Life may not be the party we expected, but while we are here, might as well dance..

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Offline Kalafrana

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Re: "Marriages" with other dynasties
« Reply #11 on: July 13, 2010, 08:45:44 AM »
Kmerov

All very true. Until Paul and then Nicholas I produced large broods there really were very few Romanovs.

Ann

Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: "Marriages" with other dynasties
« Reply #12 on: July 13, 2010, 09:04:16 AM »
Ann, that may well have been because they wee too busy killing each other off!
Life may not be the party we expected, but while we are here, might as well dance..

Do you want the truth, or my side of the story ?- Hank Ketchum.

Offline Kalafrana

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Re: "Marriages" with other dynasties
« Reply #13 on: July 13, 2010, 10:06:19 AM »
'Ann, that may well have been because they were too busy killing each other off!'

Partly true, at least. Peter the Great was responsible for his only son's death, so was survived only by two daughters. All his other children by Catherine died in infancy. Anna Ivanovna was a childless widow. Ivan VI never had a chance to marry or breed. Elizabeth was childless - did Anna Ivanovna take steps to prevent her from marrying? Peter III and Catherine only had the one child. Alexander I had two daughters who died in infancy and Constantine Pavlovich was childless. Then you get Paul with eight children and Nicholas I with ten.

Ann

Offline Vecchiolarry

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Re: "Marriages" with other dynasties
« Reply #14 on: July 13, 2010, 06:03:57 PM »
Hi Ann & Robert,

Sorry for taking so long in responding, but my computer went "wonky" and I had to have it fixed today....

Ann, you're not being 'pendantic' at all - - I was indeed stretching when I included Anna of Kiev from way back.
But, I thought I'd include her because I wondered if a drop or two of her blood was still coarsing through the Boubons!!!
Thanks to both of you for re-enforcing my limited knowledge of where they fit into the Capet/Valois connection....

I do think though that the Alfred of Edinburgh/Maria Alexandrovna joining was the most important British/Russian marriage so far...

Cheers to both,
Larry