Author Topic: "Marriages" with other dynasties  (Read 9811 times)

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Offline violetta

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Re: "Marriages" with other dynasties
« Reply #15 on: July 13, 2010, 06:19:17 PM »
may be its a little offtopic but in the 11th century ,during the period of Kiev Rus, Kiev prince Swyatoslav married a daughter of the Polish king,Boleslaw the Brave (in Poland known as Boleslaw Chrobry)

Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: "Marriages" with other dynasties
« Reply #16 on: July 13, 2010, 06:32:16 PM »
 Personally, Violetta, I do think it off topic at all.   We are all just trying to establish that the various Russian dynasties were not as isolated as some perceive.
Life may not be the party we expected, but while we are here, might as well dance..

Do you want the truth, or my side of the story ?- Hank Ketchum.

Offline violetta

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Re: "Marriages" with other dynasties
« Reply #17 on: July 13, 2010, 06:44:24 PM »
may be its a little offtopic but in the 11th century ,during the period of Kiev Rus, Kiev prince Swyatoslav married a daughter of the Polish king,Boleslaw the Brave (in Poland known as Boleslaw Chrobry)


what is more, this Kiev prince, during the period of political unrest, went to his Polish father-in-law. the prince was accompanied by a group of his loyal friends.on the way to poland the prince died but the polish king allowed his loyal friends to settle down in poland. the settled in lutomiersk, in the centre of poland,near lodz. it was the oldest settlement of russians in poland. some of the newcomers went to other places which were named after their russian founders (though too few people know about this)

Offline kmerov

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Re: "Marriages" with other dynasties
« Reply #18 on: July 13, 2010, 07:03:34 PM »
Here is an article with some relevance to Russia and its relationship with other European nations, 
AMBASSADORIAL GIFTS TO RUSSIAN TSARS
http://english.ruvr.ru/2007/03/16/126215.html

The article also mentions the dynastical marriage attempt between Tsar Mikhails daughter, tsarevna Irina Mikhailovna and King Christian IV of Denmark's son, Count Valdemar in the 1640s.

Offline kmerov

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Re: "Marriages" with other dynasties
« Reply #19 on: July 13, 2010, 07:05:41 PM »
Thanks, Kmerov. Was that the only Austrian link ?
 Of course, the most influential  foreign marriage that of Peter III  to Catherine of Anhalt-Zerbst. Whoever  would have thought such a minor dynasty would have brought such important changes to Russia ?
 And Paul's consort,  a  Wurtemburg princess  provided the  foundations of the future of the monarchy & dynasty.

You are welcome. As far as I can tell, that was the only marriage link between Austria and Russia.

Offline violetta

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Re: "Marriages" with other dynasties
« Reply #20 on: July 13, 2010, 07:14:52 PM »
As for Russian-Austrian marriages, there was a attempt to marry Olga Nikolaevana,Nikolay I`s daughter,to archduke stefan ( husband of the late alexandra pavlovnai.e. olga` s aunt) but the austrians were afraid that the orthodox grand duchess would cause unrest among orthodox minorities  of the empire. olga nikolaevna DID like stefan so she was disappointed by the austrians` decision

Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: "Marriages" with other dynasties
« Reply #21 on: July 13, 2010, 08:14:13 PM »
 Relating to your post, Kmerov,   a few years ago, an exhibition at Somerset House,  Hermitage Gallery had a  collection of Englisg silver presentation pieces fro, the Kremlin. This is an amazing collection of the only  Tudoe silver left. All the other was melted down by Cromwell.   Large cups, tankards and platters.  A rare display that some even escped the revolutionary   quest for funds for the same reasons.

 A Habsburg - Romanov alliance could have  indeed been quite political, well as need a Papal dispensation. I had not thought of that angle before. Thanks again, Kmerov and violetta.
 And  Violetta, are those Russian place names  still there and the Russians ?
Life may not be the party we expected, but while we are here, might as well dance..

Do you want the truth, or my side of the story ?- Hank Ketchum.

Offline violetta

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Re: "Marriages" with other dynasties
« Reply #22 on: July 14, 2010, 03:21:45 AM »
the russians who setled in poland founded a few towns and villages.these places were named after their founders e.g.a tiny town Lask was named after its founder Lasko, a village Kudrovitse was named after its founder Kudra.

I live in Lodz,a few kilometres from here there are towns Alexandrow Lodzki and Konstantynow Lodzki. in the 1st quarter ofthe 19th century they were named in honour of Alexander I and Grand Duke Konstantin Pavlovich

Offline Kalafrana

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Re: "Marriages" with other dynasties
« Reply #23 on: July 14, 2010, 03:30:38 AM »
'I do think though that the Alfred of Edinburgh/Maria Alexandrovna joining was the most important British/Russian marriage so far...'

Unless you consider Alexandra Feodorovna to be British, it was the only British-Russian marriage, apart from Gytha, daughter of Harold II, who was the first wife of Vladimir Monomakh. One of their female descendants married into the French house but I will have to look that up.

The Kievan Rus do seem to have married quite extensively outside Russia. It was only later that their descendants confined themselves to marrying Russians.

Ann

Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: "Marriages" with other dynasties
« Reply #24 on: July 14, 2010, 09:01:08 AM »
I was hesitant to mention  Alexandra,  she is a bit of a conundrum. Besides being a controversial personality,  she does present a problem  as to nationality.  She technically German, but  wholly British in upbringing and outlook. I will not get into her here, as she has so many threads  devoted to her already.
  Another  aspect on this subject [marriage...] would be to look at the practice of sending daughters to the Golden Hoard to be married  and  make a peaceful arrangements with them instead of devastating wars and defeat. I am looking for a decent book on this subject [the GH] for my library.
 Violetta,  are there any Russian families still in Poland from the original days of settlements or has intermarriages and  wars, annexations and such dispersed them ?
[I hope that made sense!]
Life may not be the party we expected, but while we are here, might as well dance..

Do you want the truth, or my side of the story ?- Hank Ketchum.

Offline violetta

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Re: "Marriages" with other dynasties
« Reply #25 on: July 14, 2010, 02:58:30 PM »
Violetta,  are there any Russian families still in Poland from the original days of settlements or has intermarriages and  wars, annexations and such dispersed them ?
[I hope that made sense!]

According to professor Jazdzewski, archeologist and a curator of the archeological museum in Lodz, these people gradually fully integrated in the community. We can talk about descendants of the Russia families who came to Lodz in the 2nd half of the 19th century, at the beginning of the 20th century or after 1917 revolution

Offline Kalafrana

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Re: "Marriages" with other dynasties
« Reply #26 on: July 15, 2010, 10:23:09 AM »
The Ffrst child of Vladimir Monomakh and Gytha, Mstislav, Grand Prince of Kiev (1125-32), had a daughter with the Greek name of Euphrosyne, who married Gexa II of Hungary (1141-62). Euphrosyne's grandson, Andrew II of Hungary (1205-35), had a daughter, Yolanda, who married James I of Aragon, and their daughter Isabella married Philip III of France. They in turn produced Philip the Fair, whose daughter, Isabella, married Edward II of England.

All rather roundabout, but another marital link between the Kievan Rus and the west!

Annm

Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: "Marriages" with other dynasties
« Reply #27 on: July 15, 2010, 11:26:44 AM »
Excellent, Ann !   [I love this sort of stuff, BTW] I knew of these connections from various sources,  but had not  put them together in  a link as you did. Would be nice to have them all in one volume.
 Cheers !
 Robert
« Last Edit: April 07, 2011, 09:13:19 AM by Alixz »
Life may not be the party we expected, but while we are here, might as well dance..

Do you want the truth, or my side of the story ?- Hank Ketchum.

Offline Kalafrana

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Re: "Marriages" with other dynasties
« Reply #28 on: July 15, 2010, 12:27:08 PM »
So although Harold II was not really 'royal', all our monarchs from Edward III descend from him, thanks to Vladimir Monomakh and Gytha, Mstislav, Euphrosyne, Geza II, Bela III, Andrew II, Yolanda, Isabella of Aragon, Philip the Fair, Isabella of France and their respective spouses.

Ann

Offline cebi26

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Re: "Marriages" with other dynasties
« Reply #29 on: July 17, 2010, 06:15:17 PM »
Anybody knows if prior to WWI, Germans or Austrians princes could be suitors to marriage with OTMA or with Nicholas II sisters? And anyone knows why both GD's married with russian princes instead of a foreign?