What Could Nicholas II Have Done to Preserve the Imperial Throne?

Fighting the Austrians would have been easy but the Germans were another matter. As for financial support, until Kerensky came into power,the Allies made Russia pay in cash for all supplies. There was not even any credit. This was particularly the case as far as the Americans were concerned.

So we helped a bloodythirsty tyrant like Stalin save his a**, yet we let poor Nicky get thrown to the wolves.  Boy did we have our priorities wrong!

So we helped a bloodythirsty tyrant like Stalin save his a**, yet we let poor Nicky get thrown to the wolves.  Boy did we have our priorities wrong!

Well, there were those 20 MILLION ODD SOULS in the Soviet Union who lost their lives to the second world war, which face it, would never have begun without Hitler. (Leave aside Stalin's blame for a moment and focus on the main culprit, the catalyst, the actual primary cause of the whole goddamned horror show.)

And yes, I'm sorry, but I must point this out, "poor Nicky" wasn't even remotely as bright or as well-intentioned as Louis XVI of France, and I see hardly anyone here bemoaning Louis XVI's brutal fate at the hands of the French Revolution. All this sympathy for NAOTMAA is highly suspicious to me. I suspect most of it is purely sentimental and mainly based on a love of beautiful photographs of beautiful, rich, well-fed, well-bred, and yes, very powerful people.

Ooh, fashion, as David Bowie put it.

Re Reply #377 and "Elisabeth"   Perhaps somewhat off-topic, but relating to your Reply #377:  IMO, I could not agree more with your last  sentence of your reply! Spot on!  Again IMO, one of the "spin-offs" of this "fascination-association" is specifically the so-called "IF reincarnations" and "past-life memories" drivel of the Russian and related royal families that, thank God, has been stopped HERE, but sprout occasionally on other sites.  Interestingly enough (and related to your mention of Louis XVI), is/was a former poster here who explains in one of his other humorous fascinatingly self-inventive sites, that his poor retention knowledge of high school French is that it is the last language he remembers in the brutal times in HIS "past-memories of another life" as being the Dauphin, Louis-Charles (aka "Louis XVII") !  REALLY, now! Where have we heard THAT before?  Could it be a parallel to Anna Anderson and her reluctance to speak Russian, since as she explained, it was the last language that she heard in her (also imaginative) "former-life"?   Best regards, and thank you for your interesting viewpoints,   AP.

Re Reply #377 and "Elisabeth"   Perhaps somewhat off-topic, but relating to your Reply #377:  IMO, I could not agree more with your last  sentence of your reply! Spot on!  Again IMO, one of the "spin-offs" of this "fascination-association" is specifically the so-called "IF reincarnations" and "past-life memories" drivel of the Russian and related royal families that, thank God, has been stopped HERE, but sprout occasionally on other sites.  Interestingly enough (and related to your mention of Louis XVI), is/was a former poster here who explains in one of his other humorous fascinatingly self-inventive sites, that his poor retention knowledge of high school French is that it is the last language he remembers in the brutal times in HIS "past-memories of another life" as being the Dauphin, Louis-Charles (aka "Louis XVII") !  REALLY, now! Where have we heard THAT before?  Could it be a parallel to Anna Anderson and her reluctance to speak Russian, since as she explained, it was the last language that she heard in her (also imaginative) "former-life"?   Best regards, and thank you for your interesting viewpoints,   AP.

Dear Aleksandr Pavlovich, thank you for your interesting viewpoints. I am always fascinated by these stories of people, the large number of them no doubt con artists, but some of them also certifiably crazy, and yet others perhaps just very canny artists or self-promoters  (?!) who adopt royal guises as selves, in order to have a better or more interesting life. Well, who can blame them, really? Who am I to say, you, So-and-So, should not assume this persona because it is false and you are not that person. I despise sentimentalists and actually have some sympathy for the Anna Andersons of the world, who somehow transformed pretendership into an art form. And like a lot of artists, Anna Anderson was undoubtedly mentally ill as well... still, she gave the poseurs of the Russian white émigré community a run for their money didn't she?

Er, isn't that the whole point of this board, to come and talk about Nicky and his family (plus other Romanov relatives).  I can't speak for others, but I myself have always felt what was done to Nicky and his family was a crime of murder, nothing more, nothing less.  They were murdered by brutal monsters, representing a monster ideal that went on to slaughter countless millions more, before it was finally chucked into the bin of history, where it could rot next to that other horrible 20th Century idea, Nazism (sadly both ideas live on today in some form or another, of course).

As I said, even if Nicky was a bad leader, you don't just murder him, you put him on trial, follow due process.  Worse leaders got their day in court, the Nazis at Nuremberg, Slodboden Milosevic (sp?) of Serbia in The Hague.  Nicky, who was far less a tyrant, wasn't even given a chance to speak in his own defence, and the rest of his family certainly did nothing to deserve what happened to them.  They were murdered, and none of the monsters that perpetrated the crime, the shooters in the basement, or the leaders that ordered it, were ever brought to justice (to compare, a Mafia Don is just as guilty for having someone killed as the hit man that actually pulled the trigger) for this crime. 

Re Reply # 379:  Thank you, "Elisabeth," for your kind response!  At the risk of being off-topic, I will reply as thus:  As to Anna Anderson:  Yes, she indeed did give the public a "run for the money!"  Unfortunately, the vast majority of the posters to which I refer that were not only here, but elsewhere, are not past their 23rd birthday!  How sad to waste all that time ( NOT in so-called the "fan-fiction" mode; that is "FICTION") in trying to convince others of their alleged persona, when in at least one former poster's case, apparently his own intimate family does not believe him! To extend it further, can one imagine openly announcing to one's high school class or college class, that "I am/have the past memories of HIH/HRH XXXXX!"  
     It is my considered opinion, that reading closely and cosistently these younger posters' "contributions" on their various sites/boards, that almost to a person, they are IMO compensating for some real (not perceived) deficit in their lives that they openly reveal either directly or covertly, that leads them to "escape" to another world/another time to ease the burden of family problems, health, neurological, and emotional day-to-day existences.  The subjects that they choose invariably are somewhat distant in time.  As I have said before, I'm still waiting for one of them to reveal that they are or "have the memories"  of Diana Spencer, once Princess of Wales! Won't happen!  It's too close in time and can be too readily checked.  Again, best regards,  AP.

Well Aleksandr Pavlovich I agree with you totally, but really its sad. By the way, who is the more culpable, the poseur or the person who gives credence to and spreads the bogus claims. I have always thought that you can dismiss the poseur as a person suffering from mental defect, but the person who spreads falsehoods is doing so with calculation which really merits public opprobrium.

Re  Reply #382:  Thank your, Petr, for your nice response!  You DO pose an interesting question:  "Who is the more culpable, the poseur or the person who gives credence....to the bogus claims?"  IMO, to "successfully" carry out the charade, it requires BOTH.  As the English expression says:  "It takes two to tango!"  Also, the deception becomes self-perpetuating: both parties eventually must support the other, otherwise it all falls apart with usually considerable "loss of face."       With kind regards,  AP.

Re Reply # 379:  Thank you, "Elisabeth," for your kind response!  At the risk of being off-topic, I will reply as thus:  As to Anna Anderson:  Yes, she indeed did give the public a "run for the money!"  Unfortunately, the vast majority of the posters to which I refer that were not only here, but elsewhere, are not past their 23rd birthday!  How sad to waste all that time ( NOT in so-called the "fan-fiction" mode; that is "FICTION") in trying to convince others of their alleged persona, when in at least one former poster's case, apparently his own intimate family does not believe him! To extend it further, can one imagine openly announcing to one's high school class or college class, that "I am/have the past memories of HIH/HRH XXXXX!"  
     It is my considered opinion, that reading closely and cosistently these younger posters' "contributions" on their various sites/boards, that almost to a person, they are IMO compensating for some real (not perceived) deficit in their lives that they openly reveal either directly or covertly, that leads them to "escape" to another world/another time to ease the burden of family problems, health, neurological, and emotional day-to-day existences.  The subjects that they choose invariably are somewhat distant in time.  As I have said before, I'm still waiting for one of them to reveal that they are or "have the memories"  of Diana Spencer, once Princess of Wales! Won't happen!  It's too close in time and can be too readily checked.  Again, best regards,  AP.

Actually, your reply brought me up short because I believe you're absolutely right. And in retrospect, I see that I myself as a child and teenager was "guilty" of using the IF as a means of psychological escape. I think for a lot of very young people going through things they don't understand intellectually, but feel all the time in a very devastating and immediate way (parental divorce, abuse, addiction, death, etc.)  -- stories of murdered royalty (not only the IF, but also Louis XVI and Marie Antoinette, Mary Queen of Scots, Anne Boleyn, etc., etc.) and even just dead-before-their-time glamorous royalty like Princess Di and Princess Grace -- have a tremendous, almost atavistic appeal. It's as if the child or teenager who is suffering from external forces s/he doesn't understand needs some kind of recognition for his/her suffering and can only find it by identifying with a public figure who went through a very public ritual of suffering (murder or assassination, for example) and now receives public recognition of the injustice dealt to them and the suffering it caused.

By identifying with this historical figure, the child or teen, who usually has incredible empathy for the suffering of others because of his/her own suffering -- manages to transcend that personal suffering and at the same time find a socially acceptable outlet for it, as well as second-hand public recognition of it. To me it's perfectly understandable why the Romanov children, like Anne Frank, are so deeply appealing to kids like these. And I think actually we should treat this pattern of behavior with empathy and not condemnation, even when the kid is claiming they're channeling a Russian grand duchess!

I reserve my condemnation for adults (above the age of 25-30, which to my mind is the new Age of Reason) who should know better, or at least have some degree of self-awareness for their actions and interests (or "obsessions," as the case may be! because we're all "obsessed" with something, to one degree or another!).

There is a thread in the Having Fun section devoted to Reincarnation Of The Romanovs (or lack thereof).  Perhaps this discussion should be moved there.


http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=5700.0


Let's get back to Nicky and his throne, folks.

Gee, thanks for your usual thoughtful consideration of the matter, Tim. I wouldn't think my post had anything to do with "Having Fun" but I guess I'm wrong, all these kids want to be told flat out that they're delusional and in need of psychological help. I mean, heaven forfend that we discuss these things outside of their hearing and spare their feelings.

I do think my last post addressed a pressing issue in this forum, but since apparently nobody else here has the courage to address it, then perhaps what I wrote should be deleted by the moderator. That would be a great shame, in my opinion, but there you go. Maybe this forum is for pure entertainment. I wouldn't want anybody wasting their brain cells on their fellow human beings as opposed to JUST HAVING FUN with those glamorous dead Romanovs.

First of all, Elizabeth, I'm getting tired of you jumping down my throat everytime I turn around. I'm guessing you just don't like me.  Well, truth be told, the feeling's mutual.

Second, as for these "delusional" kids?  Uh, how do you know they're as such.  Unless you're in the psychological field, you have no bases for such a claim.  People have been claiming to be so-and-so reincarnated for ages now, but are perfectly normal otherwise.  Take Shirley MacLain for example, she believes she's been reincarnated several times.  I may not share her beliefs, but I don't think she needs professional help.  Buddists believe in reincarnation, do you think they all need professional help.

Third, I never said anything should be deleted.  Rather it should be moved into an existing thread that already addresses this subject.  Whether that thread belongs in the Having Fun section is debatable.  Perhaps the Moderators should move it elsewhere, but that is their call to make.

Fourth, this thread is about how could Nicky have saved his throne, not reincarnations or lackthereof of the Romanovs.  I merely pointed that out.  If Alixz or any of the other Mods had done the same, would you have jumped down their throats as well?

As a matter of fact I think this entire thread, "What Could Nicholas II Have Done to Preserve the Imperial Throne" is an interesting counterfactual at best, at worst just another fantasy scenario built around those glamorous dead Romanovs.

Well, I like some of the aspects of this board, including the Having Fun section.  It's interesting to read the Fan Fictions and see the pictures that some posters here work on.

As for the whole "What if?" thing, everyone does that, and not just for the Romanovs.  I'm sure a lot of people ask "What if Al Gore had won the 2000 Presidential Election?"  Well, as far as that is concerned, 9/11/01 would probably still have happened, but perhaps Bush's Blunder, AKA the Iraq War would have been avoided.

The people ask the same thing about "What if Nicky had kept his throne?"  I myself have stated that the 20th Century might have been a bit less bloody, plus the U.S. would not have gotten involved in Afghanistan in the 80's, which helped give rise to the Taliban, Al Quaeda and, 9/11/01.