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Topic: Princess Patricia (Patsy) of Connaught & Sir Alexander Ramsey  (Read 42021 times)
Reply #165
« on: October 23, 2010, 10:30:00 AM »
Eric_Lowe Offline
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I like the beautiful decorated screen from the back. I know the Connaughts liked oriental furniture and visited Japan & Hong Kong on their honeymoon.
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Reply #166
« on: June 26, 2011, 12:12:50 AM »
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I read in a book about Queen Victoria's granddaughters that Princess Patricia voluntarily stopped using her title when she married Sir Alexander Ramsey.  She stopped using her title out of true respect for her husband who by default was a commoner below her status as a principle citizen--Princess of the Blood Royal.  She assumed his title and status but never stopped being a princess, since once you are born a prince or princess you are one until you die.  her real title after marriage was HRH Princess Patricia of Connaught, the Honorable Lady Ramsey---she just used Lady Ramsey to be on equal footing with her husband.  She was never a haughty person and was one of he most popular royals of her time because of her one-with-the-people approach.

Sir Alexander Ramsey turned down the offer of a peerage title from George V because he felt that it was unnecessary considering he had a career in the Royal Navy that he would have had to give up to take a seat in the House of Lords.  His refusal of a title meant that his offspring would be common with a mother that was royal.  It was considered odd at the time of Princess Patricia's marriage that a princess of royal blood would marry any man with the status lower than Duke.  He was offered a Dukedom, but refused.

It should also be noted that in her day royals were supposed to marry royals only.  She broke with precedent to live a normal life with a spouse that she truly loved instead of a arranged marriage.
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Reply #167
« on: June 26, 2011, 09:41:57 AM »
Eric_Lowe Offline
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That is interesting because Patsy's son considered his mother cold and not very affectionate (oppose to her sister Margaret's family, who were very affectionate and united). I guess Patsy inherited that coldness from her mother Princess Luise of Prussia.

Indeed, At the coronation of George VI, Patsy made sure that she was in the carriage with the princesses of the blood, even though she abdicated her titles and known as only Lady Ramsey. It created quite a fuss and maybe she abdication of her titles were not as genuine as people believe. Most certainly she was not "the people's princess" but after all a princess of the blood (Royal Princess).
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Reply #168
« on: June 26, 2011, 10:14:29 AM »
Kalafrana Offline
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I have read (trying to remember where!) that Princess Patricia had to wait until after her mother's death in 1917 before making any plans to marry Alexander Ramsay. They met in 1911-13 when he was an ADC to her father when he was Governor General of Canada, so a long wait.

Maybe, as the son of a 13th Earl, Alexander Ramsay took the view that he didn't need a peerage! Of course, both the other non-royal bridegrooms of the period were heirs to peerages (the future Earl of Southesk and Earl of Harewood).

Ann
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Reply #169
« on: June 26, 2011, 10:32:49 AM »
Eric_Lowe Offline
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I don't think Princess Luise would be happy to see her daughter marry a nobody (at least in her book). Her own life had not turned out to be very happy, with her eldest daughter gone to Sweden and husband having an affair with Jennie Churchill's sister. I guess that is why she seldom smiled in most of her photos with her family and looked positively pissed...
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Reply #170
« on: June 26, 2011, 04:43:09 PM »
Keith Offline
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I've heard/read two different versions of which parent was responsible for her marrying later, besides the war. The Duchess didn't want her to marry someone not considered her equal and she had to wait until after her mother's death to do so. The other version has the Duke not wanting her to marry for the same reasons, but promising the Duchess on her deathbed that he would not oppose the marriage.

As to the Duchess being unhappy with her husband's affair with Leonie Leslie, I think it was in Noble Falklands bio of the Duke, the Duchess claimed she and the Duke never had any fun until Leonie came along. Doesn't sound like she was to unhappy. According to the same book she and the Duke were very happy and had a passionate life together.

The Duchess's supposedly less than good teeth (I believe mentioned in one of the books of letters from QV to Vicky) could have made her hesitant to smile for the camera. Not to mention it doesn't really seem to be the norm of that time to smile for picture sittings.

Not sure how the Swedish marriage would have made her unhappy, if we are to believe she didn't want the Ramsay marriage based on his "lower" standing. Her eldest married a future King. Should have made her very happy, if she was so status conscious.
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Reply #171
« on: June 26, 2011, 11:00:37 PM »
Kalafrana Offline
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In the days before orthodontics, plenty of people had awful teeth, including royalty. Victoria Melita was one such. (Having had orthodontics, I'm entitled to be rude about people's teeth!)

Interestingly, Lady Saltoun, widow of Princess Patricia's son, was at Prince William's wedding, arriving in the royal minibus procession. She is obviously treated as 'one of us'.

Ann
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Reply #172
« on: June 27, 2011, 03:48:11 PM »
Eric_Lowe Offline
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The Noble Falkland book is a bit deceptive, The think the book on the Jerome sisters are closer to the truth. Lady Pat was definitely much closer to her father rather than her mother who she claimed was cold & mean.It is interesting that Lady Pat's son also claim his mother was cold, and her unsmiling in the photos together seem to make a point too. About the teeth, Ducky also had photos of her smiling (although seldom laughing). So I don't think it was the teeth. In finding smiling pictures, Luise was as hard as her niece, Alicky. The marriage of Margaret took her away from her family, and she was just a nice woman and generally popular in the family.
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Reply #173
« on: June 27, 2011, 04:48:57 PM »
Keith Offline
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Are you referring to the book by Elisabeth Kehoe?

If so, it reiterates the story of the Duchess claiming they had no fun until they met Leonie.  Also states about Leonie sustaining her friendship with the Duchess who admired her and sought her advice, and upon Leonie suggesting she break up the Connaughts it was the Duchess who wrote her and begged her to remain their friend. To me, not the actions of a woman who is unhappy with her husbands relationship with Leonie.

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Reply #174
« on: June 28, 2011, 09:52:43 AM »
grandduchessella Offline
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Not to get too off-topic here since the Leonie Leslie issue is covered in Arthur & Louise's thread as well as the thread on Friends & Confidantes of the Royals but here's a bit from Anita Leslie's book Edwardians in Love:

"It was in the mid-nineties, when they had been married for about ten years, that ... [John Leslie], who had served in the Guards Brigade under the Duke of Connaught, introduced the vivacious Leonie to his former commanding officer. H.R.H. immediately fell under her spell, and remained so until 1942, when he died aged ninety-two. The Duke was a keen professional soldier, and the year 1895 contained a bitter disappointment, for he had hoped to succeed the old Duke of Cambridge as Commander-in-Chief. ... [Leonie Leslie thus entered his] life at a moment when he felt the star of fortune turned harshly. Being a susceptible male, Arthur knew his heart shaken; and being a shy German princess, the Duchess reached out for the gaiety which the American radiated. ... For decades [therefore, Leonie Leslie] "ruled the Duchess and ran the Duke". ...

For two or three years [1900-1904] the Duke commanded the troops in Ireland ... . The Leslies naturally paid frequent visits to the Connaughts' residence in Dublin, and in summer-time the Duke rented Castle Blayney, a large country house seventeen miles from Castle Leslie, so the va et vien could be continuous. ... Leonie and her husband accompanied the Connaughts to India when the Duke went to represent King Edward at the Durbar. ... When in 1909 [sic - 1907] the Duke assumed command of the Mediterranean area it meant that the Jack Leslies went out to enjoy Malta, and [the Leslie] scrapbooks grew heavy with photographs of polo, ponies and parasols. ... In 1913 the Duke became Governor-General of Canada. ... Soon after this, war broke out and Leonie's son, Norman, was killed [N/1-2], as were the sons of almost all her friends. ... In 1915, to help assuage their grief, Jack and Leonie paid a visit to Ottawa. ... In 1917, when the Connaughts had returned to England and the Duchess grew seriously ill, Leonie called daily at Clarence House and was asked to break the final news. ... Throughout the next twenty-five years Leonie would continue to cheer and amuse her Prince. ... [And] from 1898 to 1936 she nearly always spent Whitsun at the Duke's house at Bagshot. ...' "

The Frankland book also, to my recollection, quotes from many letters and I'm inclined to agree with Keith's perception of the relationship with the Duchess. She had a pretty solid marriage for the times, moreso than many and for a longer period, and she seems to have accepted Arthur's relationship (to whatever extent it was) gracefully. Frankland's bio relates how Louise asked Leonie to break the news of the seriousness of her last, fatal illness and comfort him until family could arrive. Leonie's niece, Claire Frewen, was also a very close friend of Margaret and, I believe, Patsy. All of them were artistically inclined. Leonie also, with the help of her sister Jennie, Lady Churchill, tried to improve the relationship between the Connaughts and Edward VII.
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Reply #175
« on: June 28, 2011, 03:26:17 PM »
Eric_Lowe Offline
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I agree that the Prince and Leonie Leslie had a very close relationship, and it parallel that of Edward VII & Alice Keppel. Like Lily Langtry & Katherina Schratt, both gave great deference & respect to the wives of their lovers. There is no question that Luise accepted the situation, however unhappy it might make her. 
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Reply #176
« on: October 31, 2011, 10:25:51 AM »
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Lady Ramsey :



Courtesy Mary Evans.
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Reply #177
« on: November 06, 2011, 09:56:32 AM »
THERRY Offline
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Lady Patsy Ramsay with son Sandy, brother in law Gustav of Sweden and children, father Duke of Connaught and cousin Helena Victoria of Schleswig-Holstein
« Last Edit: November 06, 2011, 10:05:00 AM by THERRY » Logged

Reply #178
« on: November 06, 2011, 12:55:15 PM »
Eric_Lowe Offline
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I wonder how close was Patsy with cousin Thora.
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Reply #179
« on: November 17, 2011, 12:26:53 PM »
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Patricia with infanta Maria Cristina of Spain and Pss Beatrice of England


 
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