Author Topic: Princess Patricia (Patsy) of Connaught & Sir Alexander Ramsey  (Read 71880 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Eric_Lowe

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 17053
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
Re: Princess Patricia (Patsy) of Connaught & Sir Alexander Ramsey
« Reply #180 on: November 17, 2011, 01:43:17 PM »
Infanta Maria Christina was quite plump...

Offline Carolath Habsburg

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 4833
  • As seen on TUMBLR!
    • View Profile
    • Victorian & edwardian roleplay in spanish!
Re: Princess Patricia (Patsy) of Connaught & Sir Alexander Ramsey
« Reply #181 on: November 18, 2011, 06:03:37 AM »
Yup, but later she got a bit slim.

Courtesy of Grand Duchess Ally

"...Пусть он землю бережет родную, А любовь Катюша сбережет....". Grand Duchess Ekaterina Fyodorovna to Grand Duke Georgiy Alexandrovich. 1914

Join the cause "We want an Ignore button

Offline Eric_Lowe

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 17053
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
Re: Princess Patricia (Patsy) of Connaught & Sir Alexander Ramsey
« Reply #182 on: November 18, 2011, 04:21:06 PM »
Yes. I think Infanta Beatriz was a bit thinner. Patsy seemed to be close to her relatives including her Aunt Beatrice.

Offline grandduchessella

  • Global Moderator
  • Velikye Knyaz
  • *****
  • Posts: 13065
  • Getting Ready to Move to Europe :D
    • View Profile
    • Facebook page
Re: Princess Patricia (Patsy) of Connaught & Sir Alexander Ramsey
« Reply #183 on: April 25, 2013, 04:30:12 PM »
As a historical fact, given the Succession to the Crown Act:

"Louise Nicolson, a great-granddaughter of Princess Patricia of Connaught, is the last person to receive permission to marry according to Royal Marriages Act.  Louise will marry Charles Morshead in May." --info courtesy of Marlene's blog
They also serve who only stand and wait--John Milton
Come visit on Pinterest--http://pinterest.com/lawrbk/

Offline Eric_Lowe

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 17053
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
Re: Princess Patricia (Patsy) of Connaught & Sir Alexander Ramsey
« Reply #184 on: April 25, 2013, 05:48:38 PM »
She was the granddaughter of Patsy's only son ?

Offline grandduchessella

  • Global Moderator
  • Velikye Knyaz
  • *****
  • Posts: 13065
  • Getting Ready to Move to Europe :D
    • View Profile
    • Facebook page
Re: Princess Patricia (Patsy) of Connaught & Sir Alexander Ramsey
« Reply #185 on: April 25, 2013, 08:55:06 PM »
She would have to be. :)

She's the daughter of Alexander's eldest daughter Hon. Katharine Ingrid Mary Fraser Ramsay and her husband Mark Nicolson.

I saw one site that listed her mother as going by Fraser Ramsay and Louise going by Nicolson-Fraser. (Fraser being the maiden name of Alexander's wife Flora, Baroness Saltoun) She has a younger sister who uses just Nicolson and then a brother who uses Fraser Nicolson. This probably has to do with succession to Lady Saltoun's title and maintaining the family name(s). Alexander and Flora's other daughters just used Ramsay.

Baroness Saltoun--Hon. Katharine Fraserr Ramsay--Alexander Fraser Nicolson. (I would guess that since the title can be passed to women, they would still be supplanted by the nearest male--otherwise Louise would inherit and not her brother.)

Funny note--the 2nd of Alexander's daughters married a Ramsey and was Alice Ramsay Ramsey.

All of their daughters had nice old royal names:

Hon. Katharine Ingrid Mary
Alice Elizabeth Margaret
Elizabeth Alexandra Mary 
« Last Edit: April 25, 2013, 08:58:15 PM by grandduchessella »
They also serve who only stand and wait--John Milton
Come visit on Pinterest--http://pinterest.com/lawrbk/

Offline Eric_Lowe

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 17053
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
Re: Princess Patricia (Patsy) of Connaught & Sir Alexander Ramsey
« Reply #186 on: April 25, 2013, 10:43:58 PM »
They were indeed lovely names. I wonder if they inherited Princess Patsy's beauty ?

Offline Kalafrana

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 2879
    • View Profile
Re: Princess Patricia (Patsy) of Connaught & Sir Alexander Ramsey
« Reply #187 on: April 26, 2013, 02:31:53 AM »
All the daughters would be Honourables, not just the eldest. If they had a brother, then he would be the next Lord Saltoun.

Good traditional names all.

Ann Elizabeth
(daughter of Richard Thomas Frederick and Muriel Elizabeth)

Offline grandduchessella

  • Global Moderator
  • Velikye Knyaz
  • *****
  • Posts: 13065
  • Getting Ready to Move to Europe :D
    • View Profile
    • Facebook page
Re: Princess Patricia (Patsy) of Connaught & Sir Alexander Ramsey
« Reply #188 on: April 26, 2013, 09:08:15 AM »
The oldest was the only one listed as so in the online peerage. I thought it was odd but there was some info about how Scottish barons/baronesses are addressed--perhaps there's a difference with the children as well? Or the site just messed up, one or the other. :)

""Baroness" is incorrect for female holders of Scottish Lordships of Parliament, who are not Baronesses; for example, the 21st Lady Saltoun is known as "Lady Saltoun", not "Baroness Saltoun"."

Also, Lady Saltoun is currently the only female holder of a lordship of Parliament who has a seat in the House of Lords as an elected hereditary peer.

 Since one cannot become the chief of a clan without taking the clan's surname, Lord Lyon King of Arms recognized her daughter Katherine's use of the surname Fraser in 1973. As Katharine's heir-apparent, her son Alexander (who does leapfrog his older sisters) bears the surname "Fraser". Her eldest daughter Louise also bore that surname until Alexander's birth. Fraser continues to use her clan surname after marriage.
They also serve who only stand and wait--John Milton
Come visit on Pinterest--http://pinterest.com/lawrbk/

Offline Eric_Lowe

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 17053
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
Re: Princess Patricia (Patsy) of Connaught & Sir Alexander Ramsey
« Reply #189 on: April 26, 2013, 03:47:59 PM »
Apart from the title. I wonder what they have to inherit.

Offline grandduchessella

  • Global Moderator
  • Velikye Knyaz
  • *****
  • Posts: 13065
  • Getting Ready to Move to Europe :D
    • View Profile
    • Facebook page
Re: Princess Patricia (Patsy) of Connaught & Sir Alexander Ramsey
« Reply #190 on: April 26, 2013, 09:55:36 PM »
Well, Lady Saltoun owns a stake (don't know how large) in Pictland Properties Ltd which seems pretty profitable.

There's Cairnbulg Castle (formerly Philorth):

"Cairnbulg Castle is of interest for three reasons. It is one of the oldest buildings in Aberdeenshire still to be inhabited by the family who built it, whose home it is. It is of great interest to students of mediaeval Castles and architecture, for there are many gaps in our knowledge of its history, and so much scope for study and speculation. Finally, it contains a collection of family portraits which is rare in Scotland, not because most of them are by painters of any distinction, for they are not, but because there is a portrait of every laird since 1570, and in many cases of their wives, brothers, sisters or in-laws, and this is very unusual."

The castle passed out of the Fraser family for hundreds of years until:

"In 1934 the late Lord Saltoun, 11th in descent from the 8th Laird, bought it back and modernised it. From 1966 to 1997 it belonged to Lady Saltoun, who did further modernisation in 1966. In 1989-90 extensive repairs were done and both towers, the staircase tower and the west face were re-harled. Since 1997 it has belonged to The Hon. Mrs. Nicolson, Lady Saltoun's eldest daughter. THE CASTLE IS OPEN TO THE PUBLIC BY APPOINTMENT ONLY. To make an appointment, write to her at Cairnbulg Castle, Fraserburgh, AB43 8TN."

Lady Saltoun now has a 'modern laird's home' near Braemar, overlooking 3 mountaintops. So, I'm not going to speculate on her net worth but I don't think it will be only a title that is inherited.

Lady Saltoun, 2009



and at William's wedding



Tying in to the recent change in the succession and marriage laws:

"The Honourable Mrs Katharine Nicolson, the King's sixth great-granddaughter, told The Times how an official from the Palace signed off on her wedding - in person - in 1980. She said: 'A man dressed in a morning coat was sent, although I don't know who sent him. He carried with him the register and then he p***ed off  again. 'We've got a beautiful parchment document with a big seal on it, and it's signed by the Queen.'

Another bizarre situation? Mrs Nicolson told The Telegraph that when her father, Alexander Ramsay, decided he wanted a quick marriage to Flora Fraser, now Lady Saltoun, he had to put in an urgent request to the Queen. So the Queen, on a holiday on the Royal Yacht Britannia, was suddenly called into a rushed Privy Council so she could weigh the pros and cons of the marriage and then give it the royal approval. Mrs Nicolson said: 'The crucial point is that it's the law and so you have to do it. 'If someone wanted to make trouble then they could, and legally we would not be married.'"

She is a published author Lady Saltoun having written Clan Fraser A History celebrating over 800 years of the family in Scotland (1997), a work that sold out in hardcover first edition, and whose subsequent softcover reprint in 2005 continues to be snapped up by Frasers and non-Frasers alike. It is to date the only history of a clan to have been written by the chief of the clan.

She had 2 male uncles (one a Brigadier General wounded in both World Wars) and surviving male cousins (one of whom was also a General who passed away last year), but like Queen Victoria, still managed to leapfrog them to the title despite being a female.

Fun facts:

 she is godmother to Justin Welby, the Archbishop of Canterbury

her aunt-by-marriage Pamela Maude,was  second daughter of the actor-managers Cyril Maude and Winifred Emery

They also serve who only stand and wait--John Milton
Come visit on Pinterest--http://pinterest.com/lawrbk/

Offline Izavella

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 2
    • View Profile
Re: Princess Patricia (Patsy) of Connaught & Sir Alexander Ramsey
« Reply #191 on: March 28, 2014, 02:53:06 PM »
Hi there,

I'm new to the forum, but I have an image that is relevant. I've been doing some research on an artist Gertrude Des Clayes who was born in Scotland in 1879, and lived in Montreal from 1912 into the 1930's. While in Montreal she was exhibiting in the same art exhibitions as Princess Patricia and she painted a portrait of her c. 1914.



The painting is now at the Montreal Museum of Fine Arts and was donated in 1986 by a J.A. DeSeve.

Offline Eric_Lowe

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 17053
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
Re: Princess Patricia (Patsy) of Connaught & Sir Alexander Ramsey
« Reply #192 on: April 04, 2014, 09:26:54 PM »
Exhibited now or in storage in museum ?

Offline Izavella

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 2
    • View Profile
Re: Princess Patricia (Patsy) of Connaught & Sir Alexander Ramsey
« Reply #193 on: April 13, 2014, 08:13:36 PM »
I believe it's in storage. The image is a photograph I took of the record they have in their archives. I haven't been able to locate the piece quite yet.

Offline Marc

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 4333
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
Re: Princess Patricia (Patsy) of Connaught & Sir Alexander Ramsey
« Reply #194 on: August 30, 2016, 10:35:39 PM »
Very interesting portrait.Too bad it's black and white.

Btw, never quite noticed that Sir Alexander Ramsay of Mar has such an interesting pedigree.

He was a direct descendant of Yolande Gabrielle Martine, Duchess d'Polignac, friend of Queen Marie Antoinette and a direct descendant of Philippe Mancini, Duke d'Nevers, nephew of Cardinal Mazarin and brother of the famous Mancini sisters.