Author Topic: Theories About the Survial of the Imperial Family ... What if?  (Read 42737 times)

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Offline Helen_Azar

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Re: Theories About the Survial of the Imperial Family ... What if?
« Reply #75 on: November 03, 2004, 03:48:26 PM »
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Helen, you're absolutely right, but I am afraid you're describing an ideal world. Please, believe me that even people who don't get the statistical section of their articles right succeed in getting their articles published. I have seen it happen several times, peer reviews or not. Certain errors and obmissions will be noticed in a peer review, of course, but others won't, especially if the design of an experimental is complex and the scientist cleverly tries to sweep certain results under the carpet in order to be able to draw particular conclusions. But this is really getting off-topic, so I think I'd better leave it at this.


Oh yes, absolutely! I can think of at least one scientist who has done just that recently. But sooner or later, upon scrutany, they do get caught, and if they can't back up their results then they are done. I haven't seen it in the AA case, everything seems legit, although I don't have all the details of course. Anyway, you are right, this is going off topic and we'll have to to stop. Sorry, FA.

Helen A.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by helenazar »

Offline bookworm857158367

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Re: Theories About the Survial of the Imperial Family ... What if?
« Reply #76 on: November 03, 2004, 04:17:14 PM »
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Please take the Anastasia discussion to the Anastasia threads...THIS is not about Anastasia. Enough already....


The thread is entitled "What happened to the Imperial family." She was part of the Imperial Family. I don't think it's all that likely that Nicholas, Alexandra, Olga, Tatiana, Marie or Alexei survived considering that there are bodies attributed for five of the six. The only answer there that I find plausible is that they were killed and have now been identified. Alexei is missing, but his hemophilia simply makes it impossible that he survived that kind of trauma. The survival myth and the most plausible evidence is about Anastasia.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by bookworm857158367 »

Offline Helen_Azar

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Re: Theories About the Survial of the Imperial Family ... What if?
« Reply #77 on: November 03, 2004, 04:22:33 PM »
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I don't think it's all that likely that Nicholas, Alexandra, Olga, Tatiana, Marie or Alexei survived considering that there are bodies attributed for five of the six. The only answer there that I find plausible is that they were killed and have now been identified.


bookworm857158367,

As you will soon find out, there are a number of people out there who will beg to differ with you. Just you wait and see...  ;)

Offline bookworm857158367

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Re: Theories About the Survial of the Imperial Family ... What if?
« Reply #78 on: November 03, 2004, 04:28:41 PM »
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bookworm857158367,

As you will soon find out, there are a number of people out there who will beg to differ with you. Just you wait and see...  ;)


Oh, you're probably right. I don't see any real historical evidence for the survival of any of the others. I suppose it's possible that Anastasia died and Maria is the girl who is missing. I find that possibility rather romantic considering that she was the one who supposedly had the romance with the guard. It would be nice to believe, in Hollywood fashion, that she was rescued by her boyfriend and lived out her life somewhere in obscurity. That's how I'd write it anyway. But the truth is probably a lot more ugly. If one of the girls survived, she could well have died of her injuries within a short time. Maybe she was the crazy woman who the Soviets institutionalized. Maybe she was taken to a convent and lived there in terror until she died. I think one of them might have survived and there are witness statements that make it possible.

Offline Helen_Azar

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Re: Theories About the Survial of the Imperial Family ... What if?
« Reply #79 on: November 03, 2004, 04:38:13 PM »
Check out some of the "Imperial claimant" threads and some others, you will read all kinds of theories and stories! They even claim that the bones that were positively identified as those of the five members of the IF are not really theirs...  ::)

Offline Grand_Duke_Alexei

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Re: Theories About the Survial of the Imperial Family ... What if?
« Reply #80 on: November 03, 2004, 05:44:15 PM »
I don't mind talk of AA in this thread considering that it is opinion based on what you think happened but please, no more arguing.  And bookworm, I am not familiar of the testimony of a townsmen that he saw Anastasia.  I have probably heard in the past and I am having a blonde moment but could you fill me in on it.  And I am sorry Isteinke if you felt offended, as they said they were just expressing their criticism on your ideas.  Does anyone on this forum believe in Eugenia's claim to be Anastasia?  I have not heard of one person who thinks that she could be the grand duchess.  I have also heard of a story of a Alexei claimant that was gunned down by the KGB in a big city, Boston I think.  I have even heard one story before of a claimant that says that she was Tatiana, and she is still living!  LOL I had a good laugh at that one, how old would that make her? I will post the site link if I can find it, but anyways does anyone have any other views on what happened to the IF other than what has already been posted?
Blow a kiss I run through air
Leave the past, find nowhere
Floating forests in the air
Clowns all around you

Alll this black and cruel despair
This is an emergency
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rskkiya

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Re: Theories About the Survial of the Imperial Family ... What if?
« Reply #81 on: November 03, 2004, 08:03:34 PM »
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 I have even heard one story before of a claimant that says that she was Tatiana, and she is still living!  LOL I had a good laugh at that one, how old would that make her? I will post the site link if I can find it, but anyways does anyone have any other views on what happened to the IF other than what has already been posted?


Tatiana!
She must be well preserved!

lol
rskkiya

Offline AGRBear

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Re: Theories About the Survial of the Imperial Family ... What if?
« Reply #82 on: December 15, 2004, 11:42:01 AM »
There are different lines of general thought about what happen to the Imperial Family:
(1)  They were all executed on the night of 16 / 17 July 1918 in the Impatie House in Ekaterinburg
(2)  Not all were killed and two [Anastasia or Marie and Alelxis] escaped at some point between the loading of the trucks to the Four Brother's Mine in the early hours of 17 July....
    a.  There are a variety of theories on how and with whom
(3)  All the women of the IF lescaped....
     a.  Summers and Mangold present eye wittnesses of those who claimed to have seen the IF women held as hostages in Perm....
     b.  Several doctors have claimed they treated Anastasia or someone who claimed she was Anastasia
     c.  Testimony was taken by early investigators who found people who had seen Red Army soldiers searching train cars, or chasing a woman in the woods, or arresting someone whom was said to have been a daughter of Nicholas II....
(4) Some think just Nicholas II was executed that night and the women were taken somewhere else....
(5) Some think the IF escaped to the north where they were taken to a "safe place" and vanished
(6) One daughter, maybe Tatiana,  was saved by someone who took her away in a airplane
(7)  One daughter, Maria,  vanished with one of the guards on Maria's birthday....
(8 )  Some or all escaped only to be hunted down and executed later  reburied in Pig's Meadow.... two bodies were missing because they had not been found at that time or no one alived remembered where the bodies had been buried....
(9) All were executed and all but two were buried in Pig's Meadow while the other two were buried elsewhere.....
(10)  Anastasia/Marie escaped and may have survived....
(11)  Alexis survived....
(12)  See claimant threads.....

Did I miss any of the main theories?

AGRBear
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

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Offline Alice

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Re: Theories About the Survial of the Imperial Family ... What if?
« Reply #83 on: December 16, 2004, 04:20:40 AM »
The remains of all of the family except Alexei and Anastasia have been found. Thus, in my mind, we know the fate of all of the family, with the exception of Alexei and Anastasia.

Where Alexei and Anastasia are, when they died, etc, is open to debate, until their bodies are found and/or more information is available.

I keep an open mind about the fate of these two, but I really don't think it was any "fairy tale" ending. It's improbable that anyone in that cellar survived. Especially not a haemophiliac. I just can't see it happening.

Offline AGRBear

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Re: Theories About the Survial of the Imperial Family ... What if?
« Reply #84 on: December 16, 2004, 10:40:20 AM »
Since the two missing bodies seem to prove that the CHEKA have not been telling us the truth in their testimonies then why should we believe everything accept the part about the two bodies that are missing?   Seems to me, it is more logical not to believe the CHEKA at all,  and,  go on evidence and testomony of others who didn't have anything to hide or gain.

AGRBear
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

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Offline Candice

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Re: Theories About the Survial of the Imperial Family ... What if?
« Reply #85 on: December 16, 2004, 11:08:41 AM »
AGRbear, I agree.  Why should we believe the CHEKA as all.  

I believe that the children did escape. However, it is possible that the Emperor and Empress could have been killed after being separated at Tobolsk from their children.  There isn't any firm evidence to say that the whole family were taken to Ekaterinburg.


Offline Helen_Azar

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Re: Theories About the Survial of the Imperial Family ... What if?
« Reply #86 on: December 16, 2004, 11:39:33 AM »
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I believe that the children did escape. However, it is possible that the Emperor and Empress could have been killed after being separated at Tobolsk from their children.  There isn't any firm evidence to say that the whole family were taken to Ekaterinburg.
 


Candice, I was just wondering, what do you base these theories on?

Offline Abby

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Re: Theories About the Survial of the Imperial Family ... What if?
« Reply #87 on: December 16, 2004, 12:59:21 PM »
We know that the whole family was taken to Ekaterinburg because there are testimonies from the guards of the house, as well as diary entries of the family. There were also witnesses who watched the remaining children (Olga, Tatiana, Anastasia, Alexei) arrive at the station in Ekaterinburg. Pierre Gilliard remembers watching them drudge their suitcases through the mud upon arriving in Ekat.; and there are numerous accounts touching on their harrowing ordeal on the steamer 'Rus' en route to Ekaterinburg.

rskkiya

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Re: Theories About the Survial of the Imperial Family ... What if?
« Reply #88 on: December 16, 2004, 01:02:33 PM »
Candice
What do you mean no firm evidence that the whole family was taken to Ekaterinburg?  
Please explain this suggestion and please back up your notion with some sort of "evidence"!

rskkiya
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by rskkiya »

Offline AGRBear

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Re: Theories About the Survial of the Imperial Family ... What if?
« Reply #89 on: December 16, 2004, 01:35:14 PM »
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We know that the whole family was taken to Ekaterinburg because there are testimonies from the guards of the house, as well as diary entries of the family. There were also witnesses who watched the remaining children (Olga, Tatiana, Anastasia, Alexei) arrive at the station in Ekaterinburg. Pierre Gilliard remembers watching them drudge their suitcases through the mud upon arriving in Ekat.; and there are numerous accounts touching on their harrowing ordeal on the steamer 'Rus' en route to Ekaterinburg.


Gilliard is a good witness,  I assume, or am I wrong in this assumption?

Where did you read about the numerous accounts?  Source?  Who were these people?

This is the kind of evidence I find which is needed to prove/disprove the various stories of the CHEKA.

Thanks.

AGRBear
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152