Author Topic: Olga's Nickname?  (Read 17558 times)

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Offline blessOTMA

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Re: Olga's Nickname?
« Reply #15 on: July 07, 2010, 09:58:07 PM »
Oh dear...I should check back on my posts with more frequently! The Gibbs antidote is from " The House of special Purpose,"  by JC Trewin 1982 compiled from Mr. Gibbs papers. An excellent book I might add ...exactly what page, I will get back to you on.

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  Olga Nikolaevna

Offline blessOTMA

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Re: Olga's Nickname?
« Reply #16 on: July 08, 2010, 12:39:15 AM »
Found it on page 74 at the bottom.

Though  the  years he( Gibbs)  preserved from Tobolsk two cheap exercise books each labelled "English". " M. Romanof"  had written her name neatly on one label . The other book belonged to"  A. Romanova ( Shut -Up! ) Tobolsk 1917-1918."  Grand Duchess Anistia , most exuberantly talkative of the sisters, seized on one of Gibbes's exasperated moments . When he told her to shut up , she asked him how to spell it and adopted it as her nickname

Disapproval over my amusement has been duly noted.  lol!

"Give my love to all who remember me."

  Olga Nikolaevna

Offline Belochka

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Re: Olga's Nickname?
« Reply #17 on: July 08, 2010, 02:13:46 AM »
Found it on page 74 at the bottom.

Though  the  years he( Gibbs)  preserved from Tobolsk two cheap exercise books each labelled "English". " M. Romanof"  had written her name neatly on one label . The other book belonged to"  A. Romanova ( Shut -Up! ) Tobolsk 1917-1918."  Grand Duchess Anistia , most exuberantly talkative of the sisters, seized on one of Gibbes's exasperated moments . When he told her to shut up , she asked him how to spell it and adopted it as her nickname

Disapproval over my amusement has been duly noted.  lol!

Thank you for checking your source of information. I note three significant details:

1. The person to whom the alleged anecdote was attributed (in this thread) - was not Grand Duchess Olga Nikolayevna.

2. When you added the last two words in your sentence: "... and then used it as a nickname for herself with him!" it is clearly an assumption on your part.

3. Other than J. C. Trewin's authorship about the alleged incident, there is no evidence that indicates it is consistent with the truth.

For the given reasons stated by me in my previous post, until a genuine photograph of the supposed "cheap exercise book" bearing: "A. Romanova" along with those offending words written on a label emerges, I shall continue to maintain that the anecdote as described by Trewin never happened.

Margarita
« Last Edit: July 08, 2010, 02:18:47 AM by Belochka »


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Offline blessOTMA

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Re: Olga's Nickname?
« Reply #18 on: July 08, 2010, 06:25:28 AM »
1. The person to whom the alleged anecdote was attributed (in this thread) - was not Grand Duchess Olga Nikolayevna.
Indeed. But  it was a passing  comment about OTMA nicknames and certainly well within the parameters of the thread
Quote
2. When you added the last two words in your sentence: "... and then used it as a nickname for herself with him!" it is clearly an assumption on your part.
Since it is on an  English exercise book AN used with Gibbs, it's not an assumption that  she used the nickname with him, even if it's just on the label of her English exercise book he would correct.
Quote
3. Other than J. C. Trewin's authorship about the alleged incident, there is no evidence that indicates it is consistent with the truth. For the given reasons stated by me in my previous post, until a genuine photograph of the supposed "cheap exercise book" bearing: "A. Romanova" along with those offending words written on a label emerges, I shall continue to maintain that the anecdote as described by Trewin never happened.
In The House of Special Purpose, on page 74 there is a photo the cover of Marie's exercise book reproduced. On page 75,   a photo of Marie's exercise book open is printed showing her writing and with the information in the caption that Anastasia's  English composition of  a letter to a friend about their trip into exile is in this book's  endpapers ( The "" I'm am not an uncle, but an auntie and have no newspaper" composition. )imo, It is not reasonable  to assume J. C. Trewin made up what is on the label  of  Anastasia's exercise book. No one would imperil their credibility in this manner...and if they had, I believe since this book is from 1982, the incident of such a fabrication would be quite infamous by now. Indeed, on the back of this volume, Robert Massie states: If these things had been available when I was working on my book, I would have included them"

"Give my love to all who remember me."

  Olga Nikolaevna

Offline Sarushka

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Re: Olga's Nickname?
« Reply #19 on: July 08, 2010, 10:24:38 AM »
The idea that the anecdote might suggest some familiarity should not imply that it can be considered factual.

I made no such implication. My point was that I couldn't be of help in tracking the source of the anecdote.


Quote
In order to prevent the perpetuation of myths, the onus of proof should lie with the person who posted that anecdote.

On the contrary, if you are going to publicly disparage another author's credibility, I think that must be accompanied by some proof -- aside from your own convictions.


Quote
Other than J. C. Trewin's authorship about the alleged incident, there is no evidence that indicates it is consistent with the truth.

Trewin had access to Gibbes's private papers, as is evidenced by the many unique images displayed in the book.


Quote
until a genuine photograph of the supposed "cheap exercise book" bearing: "A. Romanova" along with those offending words written on a label emerges, I shall continue to maintain that the anecdote as described by Trewin never happened.

It's one thing to express your personal doubts or suspicions, but to assert without verification that Trewin deliberately fabricated this anecdote is both unprofessional and inappropriate, IMO. As a moderator, I'm asking you to stop until you can provide proof.
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Re: Olga's Nickname?
« Reply #20 on: July 08, 2010, 11:13:01 AM »
No reason for arguing here. She says she "just read" the anecdote, so should easily be able to provide the specific source. Please cite exactly where you read the anecdote, and quote from the source if possible.  I admit there is a familiar ring to the story, but I don't recall the term "shut up" being used....

Offline Sarushka

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Re: Olga's Nickname?
« Reply #21 on: July 08, 2010, 11:27:37 AM »
The source is Trewin, pg 74. It's quoted in reply #16 below.
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Offline AnastasiaNikolaevna

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Re: Olga's Nickname?
« Reply #22 on: July 08, 2010, 02:53:22 PM »
Oh dear...I should check back on my posts with more frequently! The Gibbs antidote is from " The House of special Purpose,"  by JC Trewin 1982 compiled from Mr. Gibbs papers. An excellent book I might add ...exactly what page, I will get back to you on.

Thank you! I'm constantly looking for more NAOTMAA books so that's one to add to the list. I love funny antidotes involving the Romanovs :)
You are filled with anguish
For the suffering of others
And no one's grief
Has ever passed you by
You are relentless
Only towards yourself
Forever cold and pitiless
But only if you could look upon
Your Own sadness From a distance
Oh, how you would pity yourself
How sadly you would we

Offline RealAnastasia

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Re: Olga's Nickname?
« Reply #23 on: July 08, 2010, 11:01:07 PM »
I think that there would always be myths about the Imperial Family...as there are myths for ALL historical evenements and characters. It's not a good think, but it happens.

Of course, If you quotes an anecdote you must give your sources, and much more when you are leaving messages in a public site, where lots of people are able to see what you writes. However, if you quotes a source who seems souspicious or not too serious for experts, it's not your fault. If there's some historians who makes up events, or distort them to a high degree, the person who reads their work is not guilty of it. Much less if this person is a newbie in Romanov's lore. I think we must be indulgent. The fault is on the side of the bad historian who makes up anecdotes and data.

My personal opinion is that one must write: " X author said this...." and then, add the quote. All the responsability is now of the author who affirms this or that.

RealAnastasia.

Offline matushka

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Re: Olga's Nickname?
« Reply #24 on: July 09, 2010, 06:27:25 AM »
I found the same "Shut up" story in the folowing book: Christine Benagh, an Englishman in the Court of the Tsar, 2000 (russian translation published in St-Petersburg, 2006). Preparing this biography of Sidney Gibbes, the author had long conversation with Gibbes's son, Georges  (from 1985 to 1991) and grandson Charles (in 1997). They gave her access to Gibbes documents, pictures of differents times, letters, exercise book of the Grand Duchesses. Although I do not know how "professional" Mrs Benagh is and do not know her personnaly, I am incline to trust her information precisely because she had access to Gibbes archives.
And the story seems to me really plausible. Anastasia was a difficult pupil, I can easily imagine that Gibbes one day of his life loose his patience. And then probably apologize. Tsar and ALexandra Feodorovna knew the character of their daughter, they were quite liberal in their relationship with servants and retainers and I am not sure they would have release a good teacher they knew for a long time because of this. Especially in the context of their Tobolsk life (actually we have no information about when exactly occure this incident).
Of course these last thougts are not History with a great A, just a reflexion based on the character of these personnages.

Offline AnastasiaNikolaevna

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Re: Olga's Nickname?
« Reply #25 on: July 09, 2010, 07:05:05 AM »
Found it on page 74 at the bottom.

Though  the  years he( Gibbs)  preserved from Tobolsk two cheap exercise books each labelled "English". " M. Romanof"  had written her name neatly on one label . The other book belonged to"  A. Romanova ( Shut -Up! ) Tobolsk 1917-1918."  Grand Duchess Anistia , most exuberantly talkative of the sisters, seized on one of Gibbes's exasperated moments . When he told her to shut up , she asked him how to spell it and adopted it as her nickname

Disapproval over my amusement has been duly noted.  lol!

No wonder it was Anastasia! It seems just like her, while Olga was a bit more....reserved? Heehee....
You are filled with anguish
For the suffering of others
And no one's grief
Has ever passed you by
You are relentless
Only towards yourself
Forever cold and pitiless
But only if you could look upon
Your Own sadness From a distance
Oh, how you would pity yourself
How sadly you would we

aleksandr pavlovich

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Re: Olga's Nickname?
« Reply #26 on: July 09, 2010, 10:15:11 AM »
Concerning Reply # 22 and the attached Reply therein:  Humorously, I would point out the VAST difference between your usage/s of the word "antidote," as compared to what you obviously mean:  "anecdote" !  Regards,  AP.


Offline MademoiselleAndrea

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Re: Olga's Nickname?
« Reply #27 on: October 07, 2010, 10:57:40 AM »
Could someone please post the letter in which Anastasia referred to Olga as a dragon/dragoon? Thanks.  :)
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Offline Ally Kumari

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Re: Olga's Nickname?
« Reply #28 on: October 07, 2010, 11:35:24 AM »
In none. That was about Maria. Olga was Hussar.

Offline Sarushka

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Re: Olga's Nickname?
« Reply #29 on: October 07, 2010, 03:31:12 PM »
Could someone please post the letter in which Anastasia referred to Olga as a dragon/dragoon? Thanks.  :)

Ally's right -- you're thinking of this letter from 28 October 1914:

"Olga is hitting Maria, and Maria is shouting like an idiot. A dragoon and a big idiot."
(Lifelong Passion, pg 406)
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