Author Topic: "Resurrection of the Romanovs: Anastasia, Anna Anderson" by King And Wilson  (Read 158724 times)

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Offline Janet Ashton

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Re: "Resurrection of the Romanovs: Anastasia, Anna Anderson" by King And Wilson
« Reply #180 on: January 07, 2011, 02:44:42 PM »
Nicholas, whose only other sexual partner that we know of was Mathilde K,


This is OT, but (if I don;t raise t here it won;t come up unless I dedicate a thread to rumours about Nicholas's love life...)....not necessarily. She's the only one who can be named for sure, but there were reports of another ballerina (Labunskaia), employed by Alexander to educate his heir, of an opera singer (though the historiography of this suggests that she and Labunskaia might be one and the same), and of a geisha named Oei or Ei while in Japan.

Incidentally, Carolly Erickson wrote in her bio of Alexandra that Petersburg gossip asked if Nicholas had syphilis. Her source for this is the fact that Philippe Vachot treated syphilis. In truth, I have never seen one piece of evidence that anyone thought the syphilis fact significant, since Vachot treated many other things; Erickson simply made that up for dramatic effect. But this is how stories get started...

Anyway, I need to go write a paper refuting outrageous claims made by western historians that the Empress Alexandra suffered from syphilis...:-D :-D :-D
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Offline TimM

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Re: "Resurrection of the Romanovs: Anastasia, Anna Anderson" by King And Wilson
« Reply #181 on: January 07, 2011, 04:46:12 PM »
Given Franciska's background, it wouldn't surprise me if a few nasty diseases were there.
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Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: "Resurrection of the Romanovs: Anastasia, Anna Anderson" by King And Wilson
« Reply #182 on: January 07, 2011, 06:07:21 PM »

Regarding the hair found in the bookstore. What happened prior to it being found is not pertinent as far as where it was stored. The finder just took extreme care once she did find it because she understood the importance of chain of custody and not contaminating the sample any further.

Alixz

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Re: "Resurrection of the Romanovs: Anastasia, Anna Anderson" by King And Wilson
« Reply #183 on: January 07, 2011, 06:19:11 PM »
Lisa, Thank you.  That makes sense.  Chain of custody has ruined a lot of court cases.

Offline Greg_King

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Re: "Resurrection of the Romanovs: Anastasia, Anna Anderson" by King And Wilson
« Reply #184 on: January 07, 2011, 10:12:33 PM »
And by now I doubt I am spoiling anything by pointing out the NEW DNA tests done for the book that again prove, using more reliable technology and standards, that AA was FS. That was hair from the same clump Susan found in 1990. She had had her hair in a safe deposit box-me, my hair was sitting here for twenty years in a picture frame. But it STILL rendered identical mitochondrial and nuclear DNA results to the 1994 tests-and actually upped the odds she was FS by examining more STR markers. Legally-and we had to check-the chain of custody issue is a non-issue for both my hair, for Susan's hair, and especially for the bowel tissue tested.

Dr. Michael Coble and Dr. Daniele Podini, who did this new DNA test on AA (and Dr. Coble helped identify the two sets of remains found in the Koptyaki Forest in 2007), MAY publish these results of their testing; if not I will make available the data containing specific alleles tested and what was found. But they also did a likelihood ratio based on the rarity of the mtDNA shared by AA and Karl Maucher-and they estimated that it was 4100 times more likely that AA was FS than that she was not-vastly better odds than Gill et all got in 1994.

But you can rest assured that nothing bizarre went wrong with the hair as far as it legally being in an acceptable chain of custody.

Offline TimM

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Re: "Resurrection of the Romanovs: Anastasia, Anna Anderson" by King And Wilson
« Reply #185 on: January 07, 2011, 11:12:32 PM »
You don't have to convince me, Greg, I agree.  AA was FS, and Anastasia was murdered with the rest of her family on that terrible day in 1918.  No one survived the bullets of those Bolshevik murderers.
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aleksandr pavlovich

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Re: "Resurrection of the Romanovs: Anastasia, Anna Anderson" by King And Wilson
« Reply #186 on: January 08, 2011, 07:08:00 AM »
A question for Greg and Penny:  I don't believe that I have seen this asked/discussed elsewhere, EVER.  The subject is the potential family origin of AA(FS)' eye color.  Always included in the lists of "proofs" that the supporters of AA put forth was the presence in AA(FS) of the variously described styles of how her eye color was like the Emperor's.  The coloring is also sometimes given the fanciful name of "Anastasia Blue," I believe.  At that time, one's genetic eye coloring could not be permanently altered (as indeed it can today only be "changed" by different iris-colored contact lenses as used often in movies). My question is two-fold:  Is it known that anyone else in FS' close family structure had the same eye coloring (even down to today)?  Would not the PREVALENT eye color of the Kashubians primarily tend to be dark ?  Does it follow that FS' strange/similiar eye color was simply a coincidental mutation that was rushed forward as "relative proof (pun intended)" of her Imperial descent by "believers/supporters" ?  Thanks in advance for your thoughts/comments.     Regards,  AP.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2011, 07:11:25 AM by aleksandr pavlovich »

Alixz

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Re: "Resurrection of the Romanovs: Anastasia, Anna Anderson" by King And Wilson
« Reply #187 on: January 08, 2011, 08:21:01 AM »
Don't we have to turn to Mendel and his peas when it comes to eye color and the dominant/recessive traits that sometimes show up?

For example.  My mother's eyes are blue.  My father's were hazel (a combination of brown and green)  My sister's eyes are blue but my eyes are green. No one came up with truly brown eyes and that should have been the dominant color.  Blue is recessive and the green - in this case is truly recessive.

However with my son.  My husband's eyes are brown and, of course, mine are green.  Our son's eyes are hazel (that is that combination of brown and green again).

Perhaps sometime in the past generations of Franciska's family there was marriage outside of the Kashubian genetic.  Remember that the book says that the territory where the family lived was controlled over the years by Swedes and Teutonic Knights as well as Prussians and Russians.  The Swedes and Teutonic Knights and the Prussians would have had blue eyes either dominant or recessive.  But it would be interesting to know if any of Franciska's siblings had dominant blue eye traits.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2011, 08:23:51 AM by Alixz »

Alixz

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Re: "Resurrection of the Romanovs: Anastasia, Anna Anderson" by King And Wilson
« Reply #188 on: January 08, 2011, 08:31:09 AM »
Franciska was one very "lucky" woman when it came to things that make you go "oooh".  She had the foot disorder, she had the blue eyes, she was the right height, she had scars and previously broken bones.

What a strange convergence of all things physical that could and did make people (especially those who had not seen Anastasia since before 1914) think that Franciska just could be the "real thing".

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Re: "Resurrection of the Romanovs: Anastasia, Anna Anderson" by King And Wilson
« Reply #189 on: January 08, 2011, 11:16:39 AM »
Indeed, Mendel's recessive traits crop up in many unexpected places.  I had a close friend in high school who's parents were dark Eastern European and their son, my friend, had snow white hair and Elizabeth Taylor eyes, yet he looked otherwise exactly like his dad.

Offline Kalafrana

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Re: "Resurrection of the Romanovs: Anastasia, Anna Anderson" by King And Wilson
« Reply #190 on: January 08, 2011, 11:34:13 AM »
'Don't we have to turn to Mendel and his peas when it comes to eye color and the dominant/recessive traits that sometimes show up?'

Yes. To take another example. My maternal grandmother had black hair and brown eyes. She married a man with brown hair and blue eyes. They produced two black-haired brown-eyed sons, one son with dark brown hair and green eyes and a daughter with dark-brown hair and grey-blue eyes. The eldest son (black hair, brown eyes), married and produced two dark-haired brown-eyed sons, of whom one has two similar daughters). My mother married my fair-haired blue-eyed father and produced a son and daughter, both fair-haired and blue-eyed.

Odd things do happen. My brother and I look strikingly like our father and not at all like our mother. However, I have the same eyebrows (if rather less bushy!) than my maternal great-great-grandfather, and the same astigmatism in my left eye.

Ann

Offline TimM

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Re: "Resurrection of the Romanovs: Anastasia, Anna Anderson" by King And Wilson
« Reply #191 on: January 08, 2011, 11:37:34 AM »
Quote
Perhaps sometime in the past generations of Franciska's family there was marriage outside of the Kashubian genetic.  Remember that the book says that the territory where the family lived was controlled over the years by Swedes and Teutonic Knights as well as Prussians and Russians


That's true, back then that area changed hands a lot.  In Nicholas II's time, what we now call Poland was divided between the Russian and German Empires (Russia had the bigger part, all the Imperial Family's hunting lodges were in that area).  It's only been since the end of World War II that the area has been stable.

So marrying between different ethnic groups is not surprising.
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aleksandr pavlovich

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Re: "Resurrection of the Romanovs: Anastasia, Anna Anderson" by King And Wilson
« Reply #192 on: January 08, 2011, 11:55:47 AM »
Indeed, the postulations (G. Mendel, et al.) are valid.  The responses are appreciated! But isn't it remarkable that "she (AA) has eye color exactly like my sister/friend/student (FS), etc." is seemingly not known to have come forth publically from those who were old enough to have clearly remembered FS (the Meyers, etc.). As stated, eye colors cannot be changed in the same person..  To my recollection, while the shape of the face, height, voice, gait, etc, were commented upon regarding the comparasion of AA with FS, the duplicate eye colors are apparently never mentioned! It would appear that in the contest to identify, everyone was "blinded by the light" of their remembrance/s of the Emperor's eyes and to BELIEVE! To use a wry, but true pun: "If you want to hide something, put it in plain sight!"  Luck. luck, luck!  (I am still hoping to hear of a documented contemporary reference to the eye color similiarity/duplication in AA and FS.)    Regards,  AP.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2011, 12:10:05 PM by aleksandr pavlovich »

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Re: "Resurrection of the Romanovs: Anastasia, Anna Anderson" by King And Wilson
« Reply #193 on: January 08, 2011, 12:50:23 PM »
OK, this is getting a little OT even for me. Please keep the discussions here to the specifics in the book. For other discussions, I will start a new topic in the Myths of Survivors thread, something like, How AA/FS pulled off the imposter act.

http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=16006.0
« Last Edit: January 08, 2011, 04:04:06 PM by Forum Admin »

Alixz

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Re: "Resurrection of the Romanovs: Anastasia, Anna Anderson" by King And Wilson
« Reply #194 on: January 08, 2011, 05:41:40 PM »
FA  How she pulled it off is part of the book.  The Franciska section talks about what she did and didn't say and how much she picked up from those who were "blinded by the light" of their own remembrances of the Tsar and his eyes and/or Anastasia and her face and eyes, etc.

I think it does belong here, but then you are FA and I am not.