Author Topic: "Resurrection of the Romanovs: Anastasia, Anna Anderson" by King And Wilson  (Read 146295 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Greg_King

  • Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 588
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
    • Atlantis Magazine
Re: "Resurrection of the Romanovs: Anastasia, Anna Anderson" by King And Wilson
« Reply #105 on: December 28, 2010, 09:19:17 PM »
Mindful of Rob's point about NOT steering the conversation too broadly away-I would merely say that if you think it's convenient that they actually found the missing remains, and that this was somehow orchestrated, would they not have done so sooner than 2007? Too much time passed between the exhumation of the mass grave and the discovery of these sets of fragmented remains to make any conspiratorial linkage likely in my opinion.


Offline Janet Ashton

  • Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 719
  • www.directarticle.org
    • View Profile
    • Direct Article
Re: "Resurrection of the Romanovs: Anastasia, Anna Anderson" by King And Wilson
« Reply #106 on: December 29, 2010, 04:33:52 AM »
Well, it really doesn't matter which girl was in the second grave, the DNA tests proved she is related to the others found in 1991.  Therefore, all the Romanov's have been accounted for.    They all died in 1918.

AA, whoever she was, was not Anastasia.

AA was Franziska, and I would have thought that the identity of the remains in each grave DID matter to those who revere the memory of the Grand Duchesses - for the sake of giving someone the dignity of the correct name?

This is sort of off-topic, I fear, as the thread seems to have veered towards speculation rather than discussion of the book, because a number of people here are commenting without having read it.
I think I will bow out of this thread....

« Last Edit: December 29, 2010, 04:36:35 AM by Janet Ashton »
Shake your chains to earth like dew
Which in sleep had fallen on you -
Ye are many; they are few.

Alixz

  • Guest
Re: "Resurrection of the Romanovs: Anastasia, Anna Anderson" by King And Wilson
« Reply #107 on: December 29, 2010, 09:30:10 AM »
Accept my apologies.  I did say that I could not comment on the book because I hadn't read it.

I also have said again and again that I never believed that Anna Anderson was Anastasia Nikolaevna.

I have asked too many questions which should only be resolved by reading the book and so I will stop that.  My copy should be here in the next couple of days.

About the validity of the DNA testing.  I guess that I just don't know how it works no matter how many people explain it to me.  Sorry about that.  It just does (to me anyway) always seem to point out what is not instead of what is.

Quote of Greg King:

Mindful of Rob's point about NOT steering the conversation too broadly away-I would merely say that if you think it's convenient that they actually found the missing remains, and that this was somehow orchestrated, would they not have done so sooner than 2007? Too much time passed between the exhumation of the mass grave and the discovery of these sets of fragmented remains to make any conspiratorial linkage likely in my opinion.

Perhaps it just seemed a short time to me.  When Dr. Maples thought that the missing remains were Anastasia and the Russians didn't it sparked another round of "survivor" mania.  The last thing IMHO that the Russians needed was more Anastasia survivor theories.  It appeared in the interest of closing the case and putting Anastasia survivor stories to rest to find the other remains and then "prove" that the girl in the second grave was Maria.  I know that the original remains were discovered in 1991. The information was released in 1993. But 1993 to 2007 is a long time.

Please, Lisa - don't remove posts just because they might seem to violate forum posting rules.  That leaves a thread with holes that no one who comes along to read at a later date can understand.

Just censure those of us who have violated forum ethics as the US House of Representatives recently censured Congressman Rangel.  We will take our punishment with grace.

I will shut up now.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2010, 11:15:46 AM by Alixz »

Offline LisaDavidson

  • Moderator
  • Velikye Knyaz
  • *****
  • Posts: 2665
    • View Profile
Re: "Resurrection of the Romanovs: Anastasia, Anna Anderson" by King And Wilson
« Reply #108 on: December 29, 2010, 10:15:33 AM »
Some points of clarification: I did not remove any posts when I saw the discussion veering off topic for a couple of reasons. First, I think people get excited by the whole AA/FS topic area, a fact that the numerous posts about her will attest. So, I tend to not be too harsh with those who are enthusiastically discussing her, even if it veers OT. I get it. I also get that trimming and removing posts is itself annoying not to mention, disruptive to the thread itself. Because I get all of this, I am a good choice for "sheriff" of "Shanzkowskaville".

But, any posts that question whether or not AA/FS was ANR after this will be removed, and those who said this do not include our beloved Alixz. The reason? It violates Forum policy. I will also admonish those who are not being fair to our writers. It's very generous of Greg to post here and answer questions, but I do not expect him to do so if not treated fairly. And, I think it's in the Forum's best interests to have writers welcomed here to answer reader questions. If you disagree with this policy, feel free to PM me, I am open to input. I am being more proactive about this after being published myself this year - and because I felt kind of broadsided by some of the comments.

The first grave was discovered in the late 1970's by Avdonin and Ryabov. They revisited several times but the discovery was announced by Ryabov in the late 1980's (I think 1987?) by Ryabov alone much to Avdonin's surprise. The main grave was excavated in 1991, with those remains entombed in 1998. The second grave was finally found in 2007, the culmination of years of searching by many people. Was it convenient? I think not! But, that's another story all together.  The thing is, while the burials were a secret, those Bolsheviks who participated were essentially truthful so with various statements, it was ultimately possible with the statements to find the two graves.

And I hope Janet continues to post on this thread!

Alixz

  • Guest
Re: "Resurrection of the Romanovs: Anastasia, Anna Anderson" by King And Wilson
« Reply #109 on: December 29, 2010, 11:26:48 AM »
I hope that Janet continues to post as well.

Again, I am sorry if I caused any dissension.  I never meant to.  But, as Lisa said, it is very hard not to get carried away.

I am not sure, since I never believed that AA was ANR how I even got started on the subject of DNA etc.  I only said that, in the past, I wanted to believe that someone survived, but since 1993, I have known that they did not. 

As someone else said, they were all killed in July of 1918.  It truly doesn't matter who was in which grave.  They were all there.

Back to topic.  It should be interesting to find out how Franciska managed to live a lie for most of her life and to have others believe her when she was the most disagreeable claimant of the bunch.  Perhaps it was just that those who survived felt guilty about surviving (I think that psychiatrists have a word for that) and played along to salve their own consciences.  Even though the survival of one person from the family never had anything to do with the survival of another, some would have felt guilty enough to want to believe.




Alixz

  • Guest
Re: "Resurrection of the Romanovs: Anastasia, Anna Anderson" by King And Wilson
« Reply #110 on: December 29, 2010, 12:58:51 PM »
Amazon is quite fast.  The book just arrived.

I just read the acknowledgements and I am very impressed with all of those who helped with the research and the writing.

Many members of the Forum are listed.  Some I expected to see and some I was surprised by.

It would seem that we are in stellar company on this forum.

Congratulations to Greg and Penny and to all.

Alixz

  • Guest
Re: "Resurrection of the Romanovs: Anastasia, Anna Anderson" by King And Wilson
« Reply #111 on: December 30, 2010, 09:12:41 AM »
I guess I was lucky.  I ordered it from Amazon.com on Monday the 27th and it was delivered yesterday the 29th.  I didn't even pay for next day shipping (I never do).  When I said it was quite fast, I meant quite fast!

I read through Part One "Anastasia" last night.  That is about 75 pages.  Next is "Anna Anderson" or Part Two.

So far, nothing new about Anastasia that I hadn't already read but then her life has been covered before.  Interesting tidbits about her weight and her lack of interest in schooling.  Like most kids, she wanted to learn until she had to do it every day.  There is a letter written by her in English with numerous spelling errors (English is a hard language to write as so many words sound similar but are spelled quite differently)  and grammar errors.  I don't know how well she spoke English, but she wrote it terribly.  I would think that would have an impact on the claims of Anna Anderson and those who supported her. 

But Part Two awaits...

Offline Dust_of_History

  • Boyar
  • **
  • Posts: 150
    • View Profile
Re: "Resurrection of the Romanovs: Anastasia, Anna Anderson" by King And Wilson
« Reply #112 on: December 30, 2010, 09:56:44 AM »
Yes, I have a picture of one of her texts in her exercise book. It's an English text which contains numerous spelling errors which were corrected by Mr. Gibbes. I have to say I'm a bit confused that her English skills were so bad, because I read that she was good at speaking French. IMO French is even more difficult than English.

Offline Eric_Lowe

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 17014
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
Re: "Resurrection of the Romanovs: Anastasia, Anna Anderson" by King And Wilson
« Reply #113 on: December 30, 2010, 10:15:13 AM »
I think her English suffered because Anastasia did not have a British nanny unlike her parents and elder sisters...

Alixz

  • Guest
Re: "Resurrection of the Romanovs: Anastasia, Anna Anderson" by King And Wilson
« Reply #114 on: December 30, 2010, 10:31:37 AM »
My French is bad, but I read it better than speak it because of all of the "dropped" letters at the end of words in French and all of the er's that are said as a's.  Ex:  croupier pronounced croupia. (long a not short a)

English is tough to write and read.  I just used a great example:  read and read.  Read can be reed or read can be red.  I can read (reed) the book.  I read (red) the book yesterday.  But read (red) and red (the color) are not the same word either.  And read and reed are also not the same word.  They just sound alike.

I read the book yesterday and the cover was red.  I want to read a book about reeds.

Also look at the word tough.  It is pronounced tuff.  You have to live with a language to get used to all of the strange things that alphabet letters can do.

I think that applies to any language, but the ones that Anastasia had to learn were very hard.  English, French, German which use the Arabic alphabet and then Russian with its Cyrillic alphabet.

A facility with languages is not something that everyone enjoys.  I love English, although I hated learning it in school.  But now I see the complex variations and the subtleties and I like to work with them.

But finally:    THANK GOD FOR SPELL CHECK!  I wish all computers programs had grammar check as well.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2010, 10:34:02 AM by Alixz »

Alixz

  • Guest
Re: "Resurrection of the Romanovs: Anastasia, Anna Anderson" by King And Wilson
« Reply #115 on: December 30, 2010, 10:36:45 AM »
Eric - did you notice that I had to go back and change the end of my last sentence?

Grammar check are well had to be changed to grammar check as well.  I need that grammar check and I need it NOW!

aleksandr pavlovich

  • Guest
Re: "Resurrection of the Romanovs: Anastasia, Anna Anderson" by King And Wilson
« Reply #116 on: December 30, 2010, 01:14:32 PM »
Re Post #123:    Hello, Alixz!   "Arabic" alphabet (re  English, French, German...) ?  I'm certain that you meant the "Latin" alphabet !  In good humor, and with best wishes for the New Year!   AP.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2010, 01:18:54 PM by aleksandr pavlovich »

Offline Robert_Hall

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 6649
  • a site.
    • View Profile
Re: "Resurrection of the Romanovs: Anastasia, Anna Anderson" by King And Wilson
« Reply #117 on: December 30, 2010, 01:37:17 PM »
I was wondering about that myself. I know the Arabic alphabet and could not see any connection to German
 However, the topic of this thread is the book. I have almost finished it and find it well worthwhile for anyone interested in the subject.
Life may not be the party we expected, but while we are here, might as well dance..

Do you want the truth, or my side of the story ?- Hank Ketchum.

Offline Sarushka

  • Moderator
  • Velikye Knyaz
  • *****
  • Posts: 6489
  • May I interest you in a grain of salt?
    • View Profile
Re: "Resurrection of the Romanovs: Anastasia, Anna Anderson" by King And Wilson
« Reply #118 on: December 30, 2010, 03:22:04 PM »
Yes, I have a picture of one of her texts in her exercise book. It's an English text which contains numerous spelling errors which were corrected by Mr. Gibbes. I have to say I'm a bit confused that her English skills were so bad, because I read that she was good at speaking French.

I don't think it's an unusual phenomenon. Plenty of smart people who speak fluently communicate poorly in writing, even in their native language. I remember proofreading a paper for a friend in college -- a girl who'd graduated among the top 10 of our high school class -- and was stunned by how terribly awkward the grammar was.
THE LOST CROWN: A Novel of Romanov Russia -- now in paperback!
"A dramatic, powerful narrative and a masterful grasp of life in this vanished world." ~Greg King

Offline Dust_of_History

  • Boyar
  • **
  • Posts: 150
    • View Profile
Re: "Resurrection of the Romanovs: Anastasia, Anna Anderson" by King And Wilson
« Reply #119 on: December 30, 2010, 04:18:10 PM »
Do you mean dyslexia? Did Anastasia suffer from it?

As far as I can recognise, she made typical non-native speaker spelling mistakes. For example she wrote:

thay (they)
pritty (pretty)
pat (put)

She also often used the word "will" where it should be "would". And she confused the word "now" with "know". :-)

But Mr. Hall ist right, this is terribly off-topic.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2010, 04:26:00 PM by Dust_of_History »