Author Topic: "Resurrection of the Romanovs: Anastasia, Anna Anderson" by King And Wilson  (Read 146182 times)

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Alixz

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Re: "Resurrection of the Romanovs: Anastasia, Anna Anderson" by King And Wilson
« Reply #270 on: January 20, 2011, 10:33:44 AM »
Wow!  I don't know how I got taken off the notification, but this thread has grown and I didn't get to read it until today.  If I had, I would have made mention that the "feud" between AP and GDA was out of place.  Personally, that anecdote about Tatiana "kicking" Buxhoeveden under the table always seemed a little "contrived " to me.  These young women were brought up to know just who they were and I have always felt that Bux was playing with her memories.

I like to hear from Simon as I know that he actually lived near and saw Manahan and Anna Anderson.

Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: "Resurrection of the Romanovs: Anastasia, Anna Anderson" by King And Wilson
« Reply #271 on: January 20, 2011, 06:07:39 PM »
[
There's nothing like inbreeding to make the sauce spicy. 
[/quote]

Wow. Actually, royals except for a line here or there are in general much less inbred than the general population of Europe. There's some good research on this if you're actually interested in that topic.

I know that Alexandra was very intense, but I don't think she was ever delusional especially in a clinical sense (as in thinking anyone had sex with Christ). As a very religious person, she thought that swimming in Sarov would help to bless her efforts to become pregnant with a son, and many people of faith do similar things. Just because we don't share in her faith is no cause to cast aspersions on her sanity or ridicule her or her faith. I think she was quite clear that Nicki was the father of her children.

I know of no evidence that Nicholas believed in "magic combs" or that his wife believed in soothsayers. There was actually a tradition of natural healing in Siberia and Rasputin's methods with the Tsesarevich appear to be remarkably similar to that tradition. Perhaps you've never been up for days at a time with a sick child. I have, and I would not be too hard on any parent who was comforted by a person who prayed for my child - and whose prayers appeared to be effective. I am disappointed that the desperation many of us feel at that time would be considered mentally unbalanced, but you are of course welcome to your opinion!

Offline TimM

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Re: "Resurrection of the Romanovs: Anastasia, Anna Anderson" by King And Wilson
« Reply #272 on: January 20, 2011, 08:02:43 PM »
 
Quote
Perhaps you've never been up for days at a time with a sick child. I have, and I would not be too hard on any parent who was comforted by a person who prayed for my child

I agree.  Poor Alexandra was a desparate mother with a sick child, a child that medical science was unable to help.  At Spala, the doctors were all but saying start digging the grave.  Alix writes to Rasputin and he says Alexei will not die.  And, Alexei recovers.  However, he did it, Rasputin did help him.  You can't blame Alix for embracing Rasputin.  He could help her son, something that the doctors couldn't.
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Offline Tsarfan

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Re: "Resurrection of the Romanovs: Anastasia, Anna Anderson" by King And Wilson
« Reply #273 on: January 20, 2011, 09:34:33 PM »

Wow. Actually, royals except for a line here or there are in general much less inbred than the general population of Europe. There's some good research on this if you're actually interested in that topic.


Ah, Lisa.  I see I've been long enough absent that you've forgotten that I sometimes like to write with my tongue in my cheek.



I know that Alexandra was very intense, but I don't think she was ever delusional especially in a clinical sense . . . .

I know of no evidence that Nicholas believed in "magic combs" or that his wife believed in soothsayers.

Actually, there is evidence in the form of a letter from Stavka to his wife that Nicholas combed his hair with a comb Rasputin blessed before he went in to meetings with his advisors . . . or at least said he did.  It's certainly possible that he did not actually do this but instead only wrote the letter to humor his wife.  But that wife had been vested by him -- against strong advice -- with responsibility for receiving reports from ministers on his behalf during a time of national peril.  Either way, it's not the best reflection on his powers of reasoning.

I think Alexandra went beyond intensity.  Dr. Botkin himself commented that the empress was "not entirely normal" which, given the understatement such a topic about such a personage would probably induce in him, probably says quite a lot.  I understand a troubled parent's seeking solace in religion and those in pastoral roles.  However, there are signs that Alexandra's faith went beyond zeal into the realm of religious hysteria:  her obsession with icons, her compulsive attendance of religious services, her exaggerated embrace of the rites of Orthodoxy after a more sober religious upbringing, her seeing the punishing hand of God in her son's hemophilia.

There was a discussion long ago on this forum about the medicines Nicholas and Alexandra were both using by the time of WWI -- medicines which apparently contained cocaine.  When one looks at both their conducts in the waning months of the monarchy, one does see symptoms which, if not dispositive of such drug use, certainly are consistent with it.  For instance, at the time delivery of food and fuel into St. Petersburg was breaking down in the winter of 1916-17, Nicholas was writing letters about taking long walks in the countryside outside Mogilev, wandering into empty churches for long reveries, saying that it was good to not be having to worry about things or being bothered by meetings with his counselors.  Some of this correspondence was just a few weeks before his capital descended into chaos and the revolution broke over his head.  There just seemed to be a listlessness and detachment to his behavior at this critical juncture that is hard to explain short of drug use.

In fact, Romanovs who tried to spur Nicholas and Alexandra into awareness of what was happening in the final days came away rebuffed and corresponding with each other that both husband and wife seemed resigned that the will of God was simply playing itself out.

_____________________

Sorry for straying off topic again.

Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: "Resurrection of the Romanovs: Anastasia, Anna Anderson" by King And Wilson
« Reply #274 on: January 21, 2011, 02:51:02 PM »
I have forgotten how your tongue can get stuck so firmly in your cheek, Tsarfan.

Offline TimM

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Re: "Resurrection of the Romanovs: Anastasia, Anna Anderson" by King And Wilson
« Reply #275 on: January 21, 2011, 11:37:29 PM »
Quote
There was a discussion long ago on this forum about the medicines Nicholas and Alexandra were both using by the time of WWI -- medicines which apparently contained cocaine.  When one looks at both their conducts in the waning months of the monarchy, one does see symptoms which, if not dispositive of such drug use, certainly are consistent with it.  For instance, at the time delivery of food and fuel into St. Petersburg was breaking down in the winter of 1916-17, Nicholas was writing letters about taking long walks in the countryside outside Mogilev, wandering into empty churches for long reveries, saying that it was good to not be having to worry about things or being bothered by meetings with his counselors.  Some of this correspondence was just a few weeks before his capital descended into chaos and the revolution broke over his head.  There just seemed to be a listlessness and detachment to his behavior at this critical juncture that is hard to explain short of drug use.

Well, they didn't really understand the bad effects of drugs like that back then.  I heard Sigmund Freud used from time to time.

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Alixz

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Re: "Resurrection of the Romanovs: Anastasia, Anna Anderson" by King And Wilson
« Reply #276 on: January 22, 2011, 09:15:53 AM »
Resurrection of the Romanovs truly has nothing to do with Alexandra and her health problems.  I know that we got here by way of Anna Vyubova and by way of Anna we got to Rasputin, but that is not the point of this thread.

Very simply, those who kept Anna from Franceska thought that her connection to Rasputin would taint her testimony and/or taint the recognition (or non recognition) process.

Either way, lets get back to the topic.




Offline TimM

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Re: "Resurrection of the Romanovs: Anastasia, Anna Anderson" by King And Wilson
« Reply #277 on: January 22, 2011, 07:35:37 PM »
I see AA's tombstone reads "Anastasia Manahan".  I wonder if anyone wanted to change that once her true identity was finally revealed.  Also, her birth date is wrong, of course, she was five years older than her claimed age (she was 87, not 82, when she died).
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Offline grandduchessella

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Re: "Resurrection of the Romanovs: Anastasia, Anna Anderson" by King And Wilson
« Reply #278 on: January 22, 2011, 09:40:18 PM »
I see AA's tombstone reads "Anastasia Manahan".  I wonder if anyone wanted to change that once her true identity was finally revealed.  Also, her birth date is wrong, of course, she was five years older than her claimed age (she was 87, not 82, when she died).

It also says 'H.I.H.' on it.

Received notice that the copy I ordered for the library has been shipped. As the cataloger, I will, of course, have first dibs.  ;)
« Last Edit: January 22, 2011, 09:45:17 PM by grandduchessella »
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Offline TimM

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Re: "Resurrection of the Romanovs: Anastasia, Anna Anderson" by King And Wilson
« Reply #279 on: January 22, 2011, 11:11:41 PM »
Quote
It also says 'H.I.H.' on it

Well, that should be removed.  This woman was never royality.
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Offline Kransnoeselo

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Re: "Resurrection of the Romanovs: Anastasia, Anna Anderson" by King And Wilson
« Reply #280 on: January 22, 2011, 11:26:39 PM »
Quote
It also says 'H.I.H.' on it

Well, that should be removed.  This woman was never royality.

True or not, I think that one should be able to have whatever they want on their own tombstone.  That being said, I have to publicly commend Greg and Penny for the incredible amount of time and research they put into this work.  Thanks to their insights readers (for the first time) can see a very different side of Anna Anderson, a much more human and realistic portrayal.  I greatly appreciate their grace when dealing with her. She was a very complex individual who many people loved, even if she drove them to madness with her finicky, erratic and irritating ways. They treat her, accurately, as a wounded and mentally fragile person who struggled to escape a horrible past and to create a new life for herself.  This is the definitive book on Anderson and I applaud them for am amazing work.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2011, 11:36:18 PM by Kransnoeselo »

Offline TimM

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Re: "Resurrection of the Romanovs: Anastasia, Anna Anderson" by King And Wilson
« Reply #281 on: January 22, 2011, 11:45:22 PM »
Was Jack Manahan buried with her when he died in 1990?
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Offline Greg_King

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Re: "Resurrection of the Romanovs: Anastasia, Anna Anderson" by King And Wilson
« Reply #282 on: January 23, 2011, 12:14:26 AM »
Jack was buried in Charlottesville as far as I recall, though I could be wrong-they had to jump through all kinds of legal and royal hoops to get AA's ashes interred at Seeon in 1984, taking depositions and battling surviving Leuchtenbergs by mail (who though they no longer owned it had reserved burial rights in the small cemetery attached to the Church of St. Walburg), so I am pretty sure after this Jack would not have ended up there.

As for the name on the memorial stone: like it or not, it's her legal name-recognized as such by the Commonwealth of Virginia when she dead-that's how permits to carry her ashes out of the US were listed and to allow them into Germany were listed as well. So she's Anastasia Manahan. As for the HIH and the dates, I don't think anyone actually cares or is left to pay the money needed to correct this-everyone knows-and people still come to Seeon to see her grave specifically, so I doubt they want to fool round with it

Offline TimM

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Re: "Resurrection of the Romanovs: Anastasia, Anna Anderson" by King And Wilson
« Reply #283 on: January 23, 2011, 01:16:56 AM »
Quote
Jack was buried in Charlottesville as far as I recall, though I could be wrong-they had to jump through all kinds of legal and royal hoops to get AA's ashes interred at Seeon in 1984, taking depositions and battling surviving Leuchtenbergs by mail (who though they no longer owned it had reserved burial rights in the small cemetery attached to the Church of St. Walburg), so I am pretty sure after this Jack would not have ended up there

Kind of sad, it seems he really loved her, or at least he gave her company and security in her final years.
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Offline rgt9w

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Re: "Resurrection of the Romanovs: Anastasia, Anna Anderson" by King And Wilson
« Reply #284 on: January 23, 2011, 07:22:43 AM »
Jack Manahan is buried in the University of Virginia cemetery. I assume he chose to be buried there since he was a former faculty member. Interestingly, the tombstone has both Jack and Anna listed, but she is listed as H.I.H. Anastasia Nikolaevna. I checked with UVA and their records show that there was only a memorial service for Anna Manahan. According to their records, none of her ashes were ever interred in the UVA cemetery.

I have always thought the UVA tombstone was strange since Anna Manahan died before Jack. If anyone has any other information about it I would be interested.