Author Topic: "Resurrection of the Romanovs: Anastasia, Anna Anderson" by King And Wilson  (Read 146284 times)

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Offline rgt9w

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« Last Edit: January 23, 2011, 08:08:39 AM by rgt9w »

Offline MademoiselleAndrea

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Re: "Resurrection of the Romanovs: Anastasia, Anna Anderson" by King And Wilson
« Reply #286 on: January 23, 2011, 11:08:18 AM »
It also says 'H.I.H.' on it.
WHAT!?!? That absolutely must be removed!  :o ::)
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Offline RealAnastasia

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Re: "Resurrection of the Romanovs: Anastasia, Anna Anderson" by King And Wilson
« Reply #287 on: January 23, 2011, 12:52:29 PM »
I must be crazy, for the gravesite I remember of her at Seeon Castle, was a simple thombstone with the name "Anastasia Manahan" and the data "1901-1984". Of course, she was not Anstasia and was not linked to any Royal, but the gravesite doesn't said she was Grand Duchess Anastasia, so it could keep the name she choose to live without the "Romanov" adding. Manahan was her husband last name, so she can use it.

What I think it must be removed is the date of her birth, since she was not born in 1901, but in 1896. Oh...and the Orthodox Cross who is seen at the gravesite, must also be removed, since AA was not an Orthodox believer. She was born as a Catholic, she wouldn't know a great deal about Orthodox Faith, and she emphatized too much with antroposophist values . In any case, she was not an Orthodox. No reason to keep this Cross there...
 
   Now, a question. Under wich name did she marry Jack Manahan? Anna Anderson? Anna Tchaikowsky? Anastasia Nikolaievna Romanova? In this last case, I think that sadly, the marriage was invalid, for she married under the name of a dead person ...

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Offline rgt9w

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Re: "Resurrection of the Romanovs: Anastasia, Anna Anderson" by King And Wilson
« Reply #288 on: January 23, 2011, 01:37:03 PM »
RealAnastasia,

The previous picture was Jack Manahan's grave in the University of Virginia Cemetery.

This is a photo of the gravesite at Castle Seeon where her ashes were buried:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_sLsMjHL9bRA/Sz3zboFpOaI/AAAAAAAAATA/OaJNe-mF_rI/s320/grave.JPG

Offline RealAnastasia

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Re: "Resurrection of the Romanovs: Anastasia, Anna Anderson" by King And Wilson
« Reply #289 on: January 23, 2011, 01:46:12 PM »
There. Here you go: this is her cenotaphe (not her gravesite; her ashes were scattered near the spot we are showing at the pic):




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Offline RealAnastasia

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Re: "Resurrection of the Romanovs: Anastasia, Anna Anderson" by King And Wilson
« Reply #290 on: January 23, 2011, 01:48:46 PM »
How funny...While you were sending the link, I just posted the same photo you did! :D

Yes; I know that your posting showed Jack's gravesite. I've already seen it.

But as I've already said AA cenotaphe only reads: "Anastasia Manahan". I don't see any "H.I.H" on it...

RealAnastasia.

Offline rgt9w

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Re: "Resurrection of the Romanovs: Anastasia, Anna Anderson" by King And Wilson
« Reply #291 on: January 23, 2011, 01:57:38 PM »
Thanks for posting the pic!

To my knowledge, the Castle Seeon cenotaph does not have "HIH" on it, only the tombstone in Charlottesville.


Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: "Resurrection of the Romanovs: Anastasia, Anna Anderson" by King And Wilson
« Reply #292 on: January 23, 2011, 03:25:44 PM »
Eastern Rite Catholics use the  so-called "Orthodox" cross. And, being from Poland, she could very well have been Eastern Rite.  I went to a Polish school in D.C. and we used both. It is just a form, not restricted to any denomination.
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Re: "Resurrection of the Romanovs: Anastasia, Anna Anderson" by King And Wilson
« Reply #293 on: January 24, 2011, 09:32:21 AM »
I thought that I read somewhere, maybe Kurth's book, that when Anna married Jack, the marriage license listed her as Anastasia Nikolaevna Romanova.

I am pretty sure that the fake Alexei - Michael Goleniewski - used Alexei Nikolaevich as his name when he married.

Marriage under a false name is a crime, but somehow except to us, it doesn't seem to matter too much in either case.

I don't think that a gravestone is a legal document in any fashion, so what is put on one is not open to prosecution.  I don't imagine that anyone from the legal descendants even cares enough to spend the money running around the world correcting grave stones.

I have said before that I do a lot of genealogy research.  If any of you did this kind of research you would find that even people with the best of intentions can seriously mess up a family tree.  I found someone who co-opted my 9th great grandfather as her own and has him married to the wrong person and living in the wrong state, just because (in my opinion) she thought that the dates looked good and perhaps the name fit her family tales. (Or maybe he was a bigamist??)  I have found family trees where the children are shown to have been born before the father was even born, but that doesn't stop the owners of these trees from believing that they have found the truth.  I sometimes write to the owners and ask them how they think that these trees can be correct when the dates are so obviously wrong.  I usually get no answer.

So gravestones don't seem to be very important, although people do go and visit and take pictures of them.  False and misleading information will always be out there and subject to interpretation.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2011, 09:35:11 AM by Alixz »

Offline Kalafrana

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Re: "Resurrection of the Romanovs: Anastasia, Anna Anderson" by King And Wilson
« Reply #294 on: January 24, 2011, 09:39:39 AM »
I don't think marrying under a false name actually invalidates the marriage, in Britain at any rate. What's important is that they go through the proper ceremony, are of age and have the mental capacity, are consenting and free to marry. Some time ago there was a curious case where a teenager on work experience actually conducted a church wedding (the figure arrived late and the lad just took over!). The opinion of the academics the newspapers consulted was that the wedding was probably valid, as it's very difficult in law to hold a marriage invalid.

Ann

Alixz

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Re: "Resurrection of the Romanovs: Anastasia, Anna Anderson" by King And Wilson
« Reply #295 on: January 24, 2011, 10:03:39 AM »
I thought that marriage under a false name would be crime.  

It seems that "you marry the individual" not the name.  

However:  It could be considered fraud and grounds for a divorce.  Fraud is a crime.  

The whole things seems to go 'round in circles.

After research, if also depends on what the person is trying to hide by changing the name, but not changing it legally.

I also wonder, since everyone has to show proof of identity when applying for a marriage license, how anyone could marry legally and use a false name?

But being buried under a false name, is something else.  Unless one is applying for Government Burial Benefits is the US, no one asks for proof of identity of the deceased except for the death certificate.  Death certificates often do not have correct information because the doctor who signs the form doesn't know or the person who is taking claim of the body doesn't know or doesn't give the correct information.  Many people are buried by those who are not related to them and therefore the person who is making the arrangements doesn't know.

When my father's cousin died, it was listed that he had no living relatives.  That was very wrong as he had many second and third cousins.  When his death was listed in the newspaper, many of us called the funeral home to let them know that we were out there, but just had lost touch with him.  The funeral director was almost overwhelmed by the number of calls.


Offline RealAnastasia

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Re: "Resurrection of the Romanovs: Anastasia, Anna Anderson" by King And Wilson
« Reply #296 on: January 24, 2011, 11:14:27 AM »
Yes, Alixz, you are right. When my great-granny died, one of his sons, put her name at the gravesite as "Pepita Canut de Monteavaro", and of course his real name was not Pepita (she was born in Spain), but Josefina...Since his son called her with this common Spanish nickname she went to her last house under a ridicoulous  name...And since my uncle is a communist he added a communist star beside her mother's name. My poor great-granny was not a communist and she is buried as one because his own son beliefs. Very sick, indeed.

The trouble with "the name issue", in AA's case is that Jack was marrying the person she was not. As you've said, a fraud was involved there, and I think Mr. Manahan was never aware of it. He truly believed that his wife was Anastasia...

RealAnastasia.

Offline RealAnastasia

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Re: "Resurrection of the Romanovs: Anastasia, Anna Anderson" by King And Wilson
« Reply #297 on: January 24, 2011, 11:18:38 AM »
The name AA used to marry Jack was "Anna Anderson, born Romanov. Her father is "Nicholas Romanov" and her mother ,Alexandra of Hesse Darmstatd. The document  also said that she was raised by an "Institutrice".

I took the data from Blair Lovell's book.

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Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: "Resurrection of the Romanovs: Anastasia, Anna Anderson" by King And Wilson
« Reply #298 on: January 24, 2011, 12:35:51 PM »
I think you can pretty much put anything you want on a grave stone or memorial stone, whatever. Here in SF, we have the SF Character Emperor Norton, a well loved figure of the  Barbary Coast days. Buried as such. And  entertainment celebrities are often  buried with their professional names rather than their real names.
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aleksandr pavlovich

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Re: "Resurrection of the Romanovs: Anastasia, Anna Anderson" by King And Wilson
« Reply #299 on: January 24, 2011, 12:41:27 PM »
I appreciate the technical distinction made by the posters: "RealAnastasia", # 309 and "rgt9w, # 311, on this thread, as to the use of the word "cenotaph."  As I understand it, "cenotaph" denotes an "empty tomb," which is apparently (?) the case with the "Anastasia" site at Seeon. One of the posters says that her "ashes were scattered near the spot" (of the cenotaph/plaque). Interesting---I don't believe that I had heard of the scattering of her ashes as opposed to physical burial of a container holding her total cremated remains. Page # 255 of the King and Wilson book reads (emphasis mine), " ....decorating the wall above the space where the BOX OF ASHES HAD BEEN INTERRED, was a memorial plaque......'    Regardless, I do not foresee the remains being removed (if they were "scattered", COULD be a bit of an impossibility!); they were legally placed there with the prior knowledge and permission of the concerned parties.  Macht's nicht!  And, yes, the site (barring any local restrictions) will certainly have the potential to draw the curious to a visit!  Regards,  AP.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2011, 01:00:51 PM by aleksandr pavlovich »