Author Topic: "Resurrection of the Romanovs: Anastasia, Anna Anderson" by King And Wilson  (Read 148330 times)

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Offline Tsarfan

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Re: "Resurrection of the Romanovs: Anastasia, Anna Anderson" by King And Wilson
« Reply #315 on: January 29, 2011, 08:40:18 PM »
Although Greg King and Penny Wilson say that Anna Anderson was Franziska Schanzkowska, circumstantial evidence supporting that Anna Anderson was Anastasia is immense. It is very sad, and at the same time interesting they switched positions. It is a shame that Greg King and Penny Wilson only reviewed the Hesse archives. Many people know that after the Hamburg Court declared a stalemate, the lawyer hired by the Hesse family, Dr. von Berenberg-Gosler, went to work for them at Schloss Wolfsgarten, along with a historian and a librarian. Gosler spent several years cleaning and weeding through what information they would make "available" to the public. If they would have only searched the many other archives available in Europe, King and Wilson would have discovered the true fate of the Imperial Family, and why Anastasia was punished and rejected by some her own relatives. They are very far from the truth. Fortunately, soon everything is going to be uncovered. Yes, no more lies and misinformation! Definitely, the "final word" on this story is about to be revealed.

This poster put up this identical -- and highly inaccurate -- post NINE times as comments on all eight book reviews of Resurrection on Amazon.com.  He definitely has an agenda going.  And it's a rather bizarre one.  The loonies are starting to march on the next round of their campaign to keep the Anderson-was-Anastasia flame alive.

Alixz is right.  A debate with the likes of this poster does not belong here.  Readers who want to follow it should look at the comments on the book reviews at Amazon.com.

It's simply not possible to have a reasoned discussion, either pro or con on this book, with people who deliberately lie about the archival sources King and Wilson used and who are selling some snake oil about a soon-to-be-revealed shocker about the "true fate" of the imperial family.

Offline grandduchessella

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Re: "Resurrection of the Romanovs: Anastasia, Anna Anderson" by King And Wilson
« Reply #316 on: January 29, 2011, 09:47:53 PM »
I read one of the one-star reviews. The author cites various typos and misspellings as proof the book is wretched. One she cites is:

"King and Wilson maintain that - contrary to what the claimant told Felix Dassel - the Tsar had the image of a dragon tattooed onto his right arm on a visit to Japan in 1891 - so large and colourful that it took seven hours to complete. [page 168]. King &Wilson's reference, note 30, [page 356] comes from Nicholas's diary in the GARF archive. The authors' are not playing fair with us here, since we don't access to this source, perhaps they should have reproduced in their book the entire page mentioned. Nor have I seen any mention of such a significant tattoo in any of the literature about the Tsarevich before he became Tsar. The diary was never published in book form.

In fact tattooing was banned in Japan from 1878 to 1948. It's not as if the Tsarevich was a student backpacking round Japan on his gap year. He was on an official visit. There's more: In Massie's "Nicholas & Alexandra" [Gollancz, London 1968] there is a photograph of the Tsar holding a tennis racket, with his right sleeve rolled up, and there is no large dragon tattoo visible. Nor does any other writer I've ever read mention this tattoo. I now fully expect to see the same photograph on some anti-Anna Anderson website soon with a large dragon tattoo added, plus a hitherto-unknown reference to it in some obscure memoirs. "

It is actually common knowledge of royal tattoos and I have several articles on the subject myself, including (finally!) info on the colorful dragon tattoo that George V had. Tattoos weren't banned for foreigners but, really, using that to debunk the book? The review author, LittleNell was accused in the comments (46 of them!) of being Peter Kurth. This was denied. I also recognized the poster ChatNoir who used to post here and who says they know Little Nell. It's quite the little discussion there. A lot of it dealing just with the tattoo issue since their complaint is so easily dealt with as to engender disbelief. The AP has already been cited  by Little Nell:

"There seems to be a misguided belief that the Alexander Palace Time Machine must be the arbiter of
all discussions about the Romanovs in general and Anastasia in particular, even when the blog is on Amazon.com.
I cannot, and indeed will not, subscribe to this theory, which is why I have never joined the APTM blogs. I know the
Alexander Palace Time Machine has done fine work in making available books on-line which have long been out
of print, but why should I bother to correct the blatant stupidities I see expressed there by bloggers whose
experience with the claimant's case goes no further than an animation movie and a Time Magazine report
about bones found near Ekaterinburg."

Not a high opinion of us!  :)
« Last Edit: January 29, 2011, 10:02:20 PM by grandduchessella »
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Offline Tsarfan

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Re: "Resurrection of the Romanovs: Anastasia, Anna Anderson" by King And Wilson
« Reply #317 on: January 29, 2011, 10:27:55 PM »
Oh, you should read all the comments under both the negative reviews.  It's a real circus.  

The Little Nell character who wrote the long review had earlier posted a briefer review followed by many comments in which he (note the "he") stated categorically that Anna Anderson was Anastasia and that there was little point in further discussion.  Nevertheless, he then proceeded to take down that review and post a much longer one.

In the comments that disappeared with that first review, he also stated that he was going to demonstrate in his new review that King and Wilson were so wrong on so many details that they were certainly wrong about Anderson's being Schanzkowska.  Then he proceeded to put up a review that had a higher error rate than anything he was claiming about ROTR's error rate.

He further claimed he was "not going to refute the DNA evidence".  He has refused, though, to reconcile those two mutually-exclusive statements.

He also stated in the removed comments he would not examine the DNA evidence, because he did not understand the statistical calculations behind it.  In other words, he rejects all evidence, including scientific evidence, if he cannot personally understand the technical aspects of it.  By that logic, I doubt if there's much in modern life -- from GPS systems to PET scans -- that he accepts as valid indicators of what they purport to determine.

It's no wonder that Anna Anderson managed to convince him that she was Anastasia.  She could probably have convinced him that she was Nicholas II if she had had half a mind.

Offline TimM

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Re: "Resurrection of the Romanovs: Anastasia, Anna Anderson" by King And Wilson
« Reply #318 on: January 30, 2011, 01:01:21 AM »
I read those reviews.  The Flat Earth Society is alive and well, no matter what evidence you can show them.
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Re: "Resurrection of the Romanovs: Anastasia, Anna Anderson" by King And Wilson
« Reply #319 on: January 30, 2011, 08:10:54 AM »
I know that there is posting on the Nicholas II thread about a dragon tattoo.

I am familiar with the photo that GDE is referring to and I believe it is already posted on the Nicholas II site.

Unfortunately, when I was new at moderating, I "spring cleaned" some threads and combined topics that I thought should be combined.  This made finding some of the previous posting difficult. I have tried to separate that information, but I (for some reason) find it hard to use the "separate" feature that is available to the moderators.  I have apologized in the past for confusing the issue and I do so again.

However, I am going to find out where that information is and at least give everyone a link to look at it themselves.

I personally thought that there was evidence of that dragon tattoo on his arm.  That does not mean that I believe that Anna Anderson was Anastasia, it just means that their might have been a tattoo and that someone told her about it as she was given so much other information that made her seem to be "well informed" on things that only she should know.

Alixz

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Re: "Resurrection of the Romanovs: Anastasia, Anna Anderson" by King And Wilson
« Reply #320 on: January 30, 2011, 09:07:17 AM »
Here is the post from the Nicholas II thread.  I couldn't bring over the pictures of Nicholas's arm, but they are on pages 11-13 and more.


"This is the first time I've read this thread.

I am interested in Nicholas II's tattoo.

Can someone provide the full photos from which the photos below are a part.

Thanks.

AGRBear


Quote from: Lisa on February 17, 2006, 09:59:51 AM
Nicholas definitely had a tatoo:

Why we could not see it properly? Here my hypothesis
1: here remove it and had just a scar, so it is less visible
2: in the 19 and 20th century, because of the chemical process of the photography, some of the colors are changed in the photo. For example, blue looks like white and red and yellow look like black. So IF his tattoo was blue, we could not see it properly.
3: the person who developed the photograph retouched the negative in order to hide Nicholas' tattoo...

Pictures of Nicholas' right arm:
      
Here I pushed  the contrast and you can see clearly  a tattoo!
  

Just to compare, here is the George V's dragon:
http://www.vanishingtattoo.com/tattoo/celeb-georgehtm.htm
  
 
 
« Last Edit: January 30, 2011, 09:10:54 AM by Alixz »

Offline Kransnoeselo

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Re: "Resurrection of the Romanovs: Anastasia, Anna Anderson" by King And Wilson
« Reply #321 on: January 30, 2011, 09:49:42 AM »

I personally thought that there was evidence of that dragon tattoo on his arm.  That does not mean that I believe that Anna Anderson was Anastasia, it just means that their might have been a tattoo and that someone told her about it as she was given so much other information that made her seem to be "well informed" on things that only she should know.

Thank you Alixz for finding that post. I too knew it was somewhere but could not track it down.  

Yes, The Tsar did have a tattoo, that he had gotten while in Japan. It was large and colorful on his right arm.  

 Felix Dassel a Russian officer who had been wounded in WWI and stayed in GD Marie and Anastasia's hospital in Tsarskoe Selo, had made mention that the Tsar had a tattoo,upon hearing this Anna Anderson adamantly denied its existence. In several of the pro-Anderson biographies it was assumed incorrectly that the Tsar had no tattoo and therefore Anderson was right.  Yet not only was she wrong, the real Anastasia would have not only have seen the tattoo but couldn't have forgotten it due to it's size.

And here is a photo of the Tsar with his arm exposed showing the tattoo and Anastasia standing immediately behind him.

http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k136/tsarskoe/tattoo4.jpg

http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k136/tsarskoe/tattoo3.jpg

Compare to the Dragon in the previous post. It is faint and blurry but the outline is the same.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2011, 09:51:33 AM by Kransnoeselo »

Offline Kalafrana

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Re: "Resurrection of the Romanovs: Anastasia, Anna Anderson" by King And Wilson
« Reply #322 on: January 30, 2011, 11:45:45 AM »
'This poster put up this identical -- and highly inaccurate -- post NINE times as comments on all eight book reviews of Resurrection on Amazon.com.'

Interestingly, I got my copy of Resurrection from amazon, and have just come home from a weekend away to find a message from amazon asking me to review it. I shall.

Ann

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Re: "Resurrection of the Romanovs: Anastasia, Anna Anderson" by King And Wilson
« Reply #323 on: January 30, 2011, 11:53:47 AM »
I have no fear about pointing out the gorilla in the corner. It is indeed sad that Peter Kurth is hiding behind the "Little Nell" name on Amazon to try to trash the book. Even worse is his refusal to read and comment on the manuscript before publishing and now come out and make these allegations.

The most telling thing to me about the lunacy on the Amazon reviews is that every single person who supports the book and Penny and Greg uses THEIR OWN REAL NAME. The ones who want to trash it hide in darkness with made up pseudonyms ("little nell" and "Chat Noir") because they do not have the courage and conviction to speak with their real names. That alone should tell you about their agenda and mind set.

Pathetic.

Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: "Resurrection of the Romanovs: Anastasia, Anna Anderson" by King And Wilson
« Reply #324 on: January 30, 2011, 12:15:01 PM »
This whole issue of the tattoo is much the point of the middle section of Greg and Penny's book about how convoluted information became with the AA debacle. I can remember early on with the APTM that someone said I made a mistake about the Palace because AA had said something to the contrary. Turned out I was correct, but how she muddled the mix!

Offline Kalafrana

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Re: "Resurrection of the Romanovs: Anastasia, Anna Anderson" by King And Wilson
« Reply #325 on: January 30, 2011, 12:29:24 PM »
'The most telling thing to me about the lunacy on the Amazon reviews is that every single person who supports the book and Penny and Greg uses THEIR OWN REAL NAME. The ones who want to trash it hide in darkness with made up pseudonyms ("little nell" and "Chat Noir") because they do not have the courage and conviction to speak with their real names. That alone should tell you about their agenda and mind set.'

Look out for my review under my own name!

Ann Lyon

Offline grandduchessella

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Re: "Resurrection of the Romanovs: Anastasia, Anna Anderson" by King And Wilson
« Reply #326 on: January 30, 2011, 02:11:32 PM »
Although Greg King and Penny Wilson say that Anna Anderson was Franziska Schanzkowska, circumstantial evidence supporting that Anna Anderson was Anastasia is immense. It is very sad, and at the same time interesting they switched positions. It is a shame that Greg King and Penny Wilson only reviewed the Hesse archives. Many people know that after the Hamburg Court declared a stalemate, the lawyer hired by the Hesse family, Dr. von Berenberg-Gosler, went to work for them at Schloss Wolfsgarten, along with a historian and a librarian. Gosler spent several years cleaning and weeding through what information they would make "available" to the public. If they would have only searched the many other archives available in Europe, King and Wilson would have discovered the true fate of the Imperial Family, and why Anastasia was punished and rejected by some her own relatives. They are very far from the truth. Fortunately, soon everything is going to be uncovered. Yes, no more lies and misinformation! Definitely, the "final word" on this story is about to be revealed.

As well as being in all the comments on reviews of the book this now the 2 star review itself.
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Offline Tsarfan

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Re: "Resurrection of the Romanovs: Anastasia, Anna Anderson" by King And Wilson
« Reply #327 on: January 30, 2011, 02:14:58 PM »
HarryB just put up a comment under the review saying it was going to reveal "a 'great truth' that will be published internationally in due time of process."

The Believers must be very, very proud of the company they attract.

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Re: "Resurrection of the Romanovs: Anastasia, Anna Anderson" by King And Wilson
« Reply #328 on: January 30, 2011, 03:50:46 PM »
HarryB is the same Harry Binkow who posted that same trash, the guy from Athens Georgia, on the previous page.

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Re: "Resurrection of the Romanovs: Anastasia, Anna Anderson" by King And Wilson
« Reply #329 on: January 30, 2011, 04:01:45 PM »
Nicholas definetly had a tatoo:

Why we could not see it properly? Here my hypothesis
1: here remove it and had just a scar, so it is less visible
2: in the 19 and 20th century, because of the chimical process of the photography, some of the colors are changed in the photo. For exemple, blue looks like white and red and yellow look like black. So IF his tatoo was blue, we could not see it properly.
3: the person who developp the photograph retouched the negative in order to hide Nicholas' tatoo...

Pictures of Nicholas' right arm:
     
Here I pushed  the contrast and you can see clearly  a tatoo!
 

Just to compare, here is the George V's dragon:
http://www.vanishingtattoo.com/tattoo/celeb-georgehtm.htm


Here is the post from the Nicholas II thread.  I couldn't bring over the pictures of Nicholas's arm, but they are on pages 11-13 and more.


"This is the first time I've read this thread.

I am interested in Nicholas II's tattoo.

Can someone provide the full photos from which the photos below are a part.

Thanks.

AGRBear


Quote from: Lisa on February 17, 2006, 09:59:51 AM
Nicholas definitely had a tatoo:

Why we could not see it properly? Here my hypothesis
1: here remove it and had just a scar, so it is less visible
2: in the 19 and 20th century, because of the chemical process of the photography, some of the colors are changed in the photo. For example, blue looks like white and red and yellow look like black. So IF his tattoo was blue, we could not see it properly.
3: the person who developed the photograph retouched the negative in order to hide Nicholas' tattoo...

Pictures of Nicholas' right arm:
      
Here I pushed  the contrast and you can see clearly  a tattoo!
  

Just to compare, here is the George V's dragon:
http://www.vanishingtattoo.com/tattoo/celeb-georgehtm.htm
  





AGRBear, if Iím not mistaken I think these pictures come from Beinecke Albums, the last two links are not the one posted but they show Nicholasí tatoo

http://brbl-images.library.yale.edu/ROMANOVIMG/size4/D0009/00094004.jpg
http://brbl-images.library.yale.edu/ROMANOVIMG/size4/D0006/00064013.jpg
http://brbl-images.library.yale.edu/ROMANOVIMG/size4/D0006/00064019.jpg
http://brbl-images.library.yale.edu/ROMANOVIMG/size4/D0004/00044007.jpg
http://brbl-images.library.yale.edu/ROMANOVIMG/size4/D0002/00024014.jpg


Thank you.

AGRBear
« Last Edit: January 30, 2011, 04:05:04 PM by AGRBear »
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