Author Topic: "Resurrection of the Romanovs: Anastasia, Anna Anderson" by King And Wilson  (Read 146188 times)

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Offline Forum Admin

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Re: "Resurrection of the Romanovs: Anastasia, Anna Anderson" by King And Wilson
« Reply #345 on: January 31, 2011, 12:21:59 PM »
RA, I'm afraid that "what some people say" sadly must be part of the discussion. For example, on Amazon, one "reviewer" ( LittleNell8 )  stated about the book "Some of their [King's and Wilson's] research is incorrect, some of it is merely name calling and some of it is downright dishonest . . . .Their book is nothing but a silly hoax, so full of mistakes that they almost don't seem to care that such mistakes are so noticeable."

They have accused King and Wilson of dishonesty and perpetrating a hoax with the book.  I am unable to reply on Amazon, as only those who bought the book via Amazon may reply or review  (Greg is most kindly sending us a signed presentation copy for our library. THANKS GREG!!).  Such defamatory and legally libelous statements must be addressed and defended. Particularly calling their research "downright dishonest" and a "hoax". Nothing could be farther from the truth.

« Last Edit: January 31, 2011, 12:24:12 PM by Forum Admin »

Offline Louis_Charles

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Re: "Resurrection of the Romanovs: Anastasia, Anna Anderson" by King And Wilson
« Reply #346 on: January 31, 2011, 12:54:33 PM »
I am also one of the posters on Amazon, under the name "Cantilever". I liked the book very much, as I said above, but of course people have the right to different opinions, provided they have the facts necessary to support those opinions.  Some of the "reviewers" has posted that King and Wilson used only the Hessian archives: demonstrably untrue. Others post subjective impressions as objective facts: Anderson's blue eyes were "unforgettable". I met her, and I don't remember them. That's not to say she didn't wow the socks off others, but this is a subjective impression, not evidence that she was the Grand Duchess.

The anti-ROTR "reviewers" (I grimaced a bit when I typed that, because most of them lack the thoughtfulness that a good review should have, and all of them lack the veracity) are claiming, among other things, that there will be a memoir released that will change completely how people view Jack Manahan (the worst thing I have heard anyone say about poor Manahan is that he was gullible. Which he was.) and that there is some kind of portentuous revelation coming that will astound the world. Uh-huh. Nothing is offered to back these claims, and in the meantime their poisonous "reviews" sit on Amazon.

And that's why people are writing rebuttals.


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Offline grandduchessella

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Re: "Resurrection of the Romanovs: Anastasia, Anna Anderson" by King And Wilson
« Reply #347 on: January 31, 2011, 12:59:20 PM »
Rob, I think you've perhaps forgotten that Kurth did provide considerable materials to King and Wilson at the outset of their project, at a time when he anticipated their research would bring them to the same conclusions he had made 25 years earlier.  My understanding is that Kurth declined to read the manuscripts of the near-completed work, which King and Wilson had offered to him as a courtesy since they were about to go public with conclusions that were at odds with the very public stake Kurth had put in the ground on Anderson's identity, both in his book and in later articles and web postings, even after the DNA evidence began to arrive.

Very true--Greg King even noted here on the APF:

Peter did indeed assist us when we were researching the book. It is also true that he declined several offers to read the manuscript prior to publication and offer comments or corrections, which of course was his right.

The fracas on Amazon is more amusing than anything else-clearly an instructive lesson in bizarre psychology
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Offline Tsarfan

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Re: "Resurrection of the Romanovs: Anastasia, Anna Anderson" by King And Wilson
« Reply #348 on: January 31, 2011, 01:15:52 PM »
This Little Nell character is really a train wreck that just keeps happening.

He/she has now posted twice on Amazon that the post calling King and Wilson "dishonest" and their book a "hoax" has been taken down, claiming at first that he/she took it down several days ago.  In fact, it's still up as I write this.

He/she seems to want King and Wilson and their publisher not to go looking for it but still wants to keep it up so others can see it.  The amount of bald-faced lying is simply incredible.

This kind of out-of-control craziness is rapidly overtaking the discussion of this book on Amazon, as the crazies have come out in full force.  The good news is that it's only about a half dozen people, so full force doesn't amount to much.

But Bear, I must say you have some interesting friends.  (And I think it's pretty clear now who they are.  Good luck.)

________________

In case anyone is confused about this, here's what LittleNell8 posted on Amazon:

"I honestly do not understand why there is this frenzy that Anna Anderson MUST be Franziska Schanzkowska. She clearly wasn't. King & Wilson have, in their quest seemed to have lost any ability they may have had to relate one situation to another, and look at it from an overall historical perspective. Some of their research is incorrect, some of it is merely name calling and some of it is downright dishonest.

If Franziska Schanzkowska is on Time Magazine's Top Ten Hoaxers list then I'm sure King & Wilson will, one day, be on the magazine's Top 25 hoaxers list. Their book is nothing but a silly hoax, so full of mistakes that they almost don't seem to care that such mistakes are so noticeable."

Going one day to be on a "Time" magazine Top 25 hoaxers list?

The Little Nell character also breaks out into periodic tirades against the Alexander Palace Time Machine forum.  It seems there is some personal agenda beyond which he/she cannot get.

Actually, Little Nell's posts have two separate strains of content.  Some of it originates with the poster herself.  Some of it is fed to her by Kurth, who is using her as a posting shill, as some of the posts contain arcane references and inside jokes that several people who know Kurth well recognize as emanating only from him.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2011, 01:42:06 PM by Tsarfan »

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Re: "Resurrection of the Romanovs: Anastasia, Anna Anderson" by King And Wilson
« Reply #349 on: January 31, 2011, 01:35:34 PM »
OK - I don't understand why anyone would want to write a review on Amazon in the first place.  I actually did only twice on books that have nothing to do with Russia or the Imperial Family and then I thought, who the heck am I to be posting my opinion about any book?

Of course I have my opinions, but I am not a professional writer (not yet anyway) nor a professional reviewer and so what I think doesn't amount to a "hill of beans' as someone once said in a movie or two.

It must be hard for those who were "hood winked" by Franziska all those years to have to admit that they were conned.  Especially since so many put their professional reputations on the line for her.

As the old saying goes, "Fool me once, shame on you.  Fool me twice, shame on me."  I think being fooled twice has hurt some people very deeply and they are taking their frustrations out on Greg and Penney since Franziska is now departed.

Offline grandduchessella

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Re: "Resurrection of the Romanovs: Anastasia, Anna Anderson" by King And Wilson
« Reply #350 on: January 31, 2011, 01:49:01 PM »
If I can try to steer this back to point (and perhaps all DNA questions should go into some new thread in the Myth of Survivors under an FS heading or something):

Originally we did deal with the alleged 1916 trip by Ernie at great length-but it got cut because we had to cut the word count from 160,000 to 140,000. In the end, we agreed that the important point about it was not whether it had taken place or not-it was whether the ALLEGATIONS about it were so secret that AA's mention of them revealed intimate knowledge only Anastasia would have possessed. And as we show, clearly the answer to this was no.

The arguments about the trip belong to another book or issue but seemed ultimately out of place in a book on AA because it was knowledge of the alleged visit, not the visit itself, that was key.

And maybe those 20,000 words can go into an eventual biography on GD Ernest--hope springs eternal.  :) As a side note to Greg and Penny--I bought all your joint and separate recent books (not just royal but the one on Mrs Astor's 'Court' as well) and just sent a lady out of the library a couple weeks ago with 2 of them (Court of the Last Tsar and Twilight of Splendour) and she reported that she greatly enjoyed them. She is very interested in this new book as well when it finally arrives and the cataloger (ahem) gets around to finishing it (I mean cataloging it) herself.

And the comments under the 1 star post have increased by 20 since yesterday. The book is certainly stirring up controversy, which, hopefully will be good for sales if nothing else.
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Offline grandduchessella

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Re: "Resurrection of the Romanovs: Anastasia, Anna Anderson" by King And Wilson
« Reply #351 on: January 31, 2011, 09:37:04 PM »
Greg King has himself posted a response to the Amazon review that addresses the point about what archives were/weren't used amongst other points:

"Contrary to what is being stated, as the authors of The Resurrection of the Romanovs, we worked in and drew upon multiple archival sources and collections. In addition to the Staatsarchiv in Darmstadt, this included Russian archives, the Hamburg trial files in Hamburg (all evidence assembled both pro and con), the private collections of Ian Lilburn and Peter Kurth (both believers that Anna Anderson was Anastasia), and numerous others. Efforts to insist that the book rests only on work in the Staatsarchiv simply show that the poster has not read read the book or is ignoring the multitude of sources, on both sides of the issue-yet another example of how fact becomes so frequently twisted in this case. "
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Offline Kalafrana

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Re: "Resurrection of the Romanovs: Anastasia, Anna Anderson" by King And Wilson
« Reply #352 on: February 01, 2011, 03:29:38 AM »
Interestingly, the hostile reviews must be appearing only on Amazon US. When I looked on UK Amazon yesterday, there were five reviews besides mine, all but one favourable.

Ann

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Re: "Resurrection of the Romanovs: Anastasia, Anna Anderson" by King And Wilson
« Reply #353 on: February 01, 2011, 08:46:24 AM »
Interestingly, the hostile reviews must be appearing only on Amazon US. When I looked on UK Amazon yesterday, there were five reviews besides mine, all but one favourable.

Ann

The reviews are good but in the comments there are still a few posters who insist the book is wrong and AA was Anastasia. However, the tone is nowhere near as bad as on Amazon.com.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2011, 08:59:24 AM by Alixz »
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Offline AGRBear

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Re: "Resurrection of the Romanovs: Anastasia, Anna Anderson" by King And Wilson
« Reply #354 on: February 01, 2011, 10:13:51 AM »
...[in part]...

But Bear, I must say you have some interesting friends.  (And I think it's pretty clear now who they are.  Good luck.)


....

I have dined with presidents  and feed chickens in the mornings....  Yes,  I do have some interesting friends.

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Re: "Resurrection of the Romanovs: Anastasia, Anna Anderson" by King And Wilson
« Reply #355 on: February 01, 2011, 11:56:10 AM »
There were NO reviews on the Amazon Canada site.  Well there is one there now, mine.
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Re: "Resurrection of the Romanovs: Anastasia, Anna Anderson" by King And Wilson
« Reply #356 on: February 01, 2011, 01:57:23 PM »
All hell's about to break loose over on Amazon if anyone wants to check the comments under "Thubten Namdrol's" review.

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Re: "Resurrection of the Romanovs: Anastasia, Anna Anderson" by King And Wilson
« Reply #357 on: February 01, 2011, 02:10:45 PM »
Nice to see the AP Forum dragged into it even further--including the Oma Hamou disaster (what's a strong enough word for that situation?). I think our posters would do well to stay away from posting in the comments site there as it looks like it's becoming less a review and more a slug-fest and we don't need to participate or fan the flames. After all, there are only the 3 negative reviews (2 1-star and 1 2-star) and the bulk of the nastiness is in the comments. Those people will never be convinced either a) that AA was FS or b) to hold a rational review discussion so it's just a goat-roping exercise at this point no matter what the intentions. Anyone who wants to help, buy (or borrow) the book and write a decent (in terms of writing, not necessarily star-rating) review of it. Otherwise, we are probably well out of it. I don't think Bob or Rob need some things dredged up further even in the name of defense. They've managed to keep most of that stuff off the Forum and behind the scenes.  :(
« Last Edit: February 01, 2011, 02:13:42 PM by grandduchessella »
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Offline grandduchessella

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Re: "Resurrection of the Romanovs: Anastasia, Anna Anderson" by King And Wilson
« Reply #358 on: February 01, 2011, 02:20:38 PM »
I found this photograph of Jack's tombstone on the web. I have to correct myself from my earlier post, Anna's section reads "HIH Anastasia of Russia", not "Anastasia Nikolaevna"

If you click see full size image towards the top, you can see the full image better:

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.readthehook.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/news-anastasiagrave-med.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.readthehook.com/blog/index.php/2009/02/14/annas-versary-anastasia-manahan-recalled-25-years-after-death/&usg=__8faTWexmpR_TrIEeHRRB_y8kKuM=&h=675&w=900&sz=298&hl=en&start=80&zoom=1&tbnid=iqH6EAi86qiTpM:&tbnh=110&tbnw=146&ei=pjQ8TbbyI4zVgAfngsW-CA&prev=/images%3Fq%3Danna%2Banderson%2Bmanahan%26start%3D60%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Dactive%26sa%3DN%26gbv%3D2%26tbs%3Disch:1&itbs=1

The man the interview is about is a staunch defender of her not being FS in the reviews of the book on Amazon--Robert Crouch.

I guess he still believes what AA told him:

"I wish I could tell you what was told to me about the retinue at Hemmelmark, but I have to keep it quiet until my memoirs are complete and until I am able to catalogue the supporting evidence.

As for the Schankowska family being nobility, I can tell you that there is a theory among those of us in the inner circle that they were not Polish nor Kaschoubian, but rather the descendants of Dutch canal builders . It is well-known among ethnic cartographers and genealogist that Dutch Mennonite
canal builders settled in the Kaschoubins region in order to drain the swampy lands of Pomerania.

How does this possible fact affect the Schankowska hypothesis? I am still not sure, but there may have been two Schankowska families and King and Wilson have identified the lienage of the wrong one."
« Last Edit: February 01, 2011, 02:22:24 PM by grandduchessella »
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Offline Tsarfan

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Re: "Resurrection of the Romanovs: Anastasia, Anna Anderson" by King And Wilson
« Reply #359 on: February 01, 2011, 02:21:57 PM »
I talked with Rob before putting up the post on Amazon.  He understands that the AP has been dragged into this by others over on Amazon, and he was fine with the comment that was posted that brings the hidden agenda to light.  People here should understand just how crazy some of the people are who haunt these Russian history forums.

At one point, the overall rating of the book on Amazon dropped to 3.5 due to the negative posts of those who had personal agendas against the authors or others.  Things will not just take care of themselves.  More people have to be willing to become involved in holding the craziness within reasonable bounds.

I do agree certain names should not be mentioned here.  Let it play out on Amazon as long as it does.  But people here might at least want to know it's going on.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2011, 02:24:23 PM by Tsarfan »