Author Topic: George and Marina, Duke and Duchess of Kent, Part 2  (Read 192118 times)

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Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: George and Marina, Duke and Duchess of Kent, Part 2
« Reply #315 on: July 13, 2012, 01:50:55 AM »
I think reputation is very much in the minds of Marina & Olga's mind when they conduct themselves. Ellen herself was happily married until her husband died. All three of her daughters had happy married lives too. It was harder for Queen Elisabeth, The Queen Mother to do the same with Princess Margaret, as the times were changing. Princess Margret had all the beauty and glamour of her Aunt Marina (whom she had idolized since a girl), but without her discretion. Which explained why Marina's daughter Princess Alexandra is still today a hard working royal, without scandal (except for her daughter Marina, who went through a phase) and quietly elegant like her mother.

Offline perdita

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Re: George and Marina, Duke and Duchess of Kent, Part 2
« Reply #316 on: July 15, 2012, 01:24:13 PM »
I think reputation is very much in the minds of Marina & Olga's mind when they conduct themselves. Ellen herself was happily married until her husband died. All three of her daughters had happy married lives too. It was harder for Queen Elisabeth, The Queen Mother to do the same with Princess Margaret, as the times were changing. Princess Margret had all the beauty and glamour of her Aunt Marina (whom she had idolized since a girl), but without her discretion. Which explained why Marina's daughter Princess Alexandra is still today a hard working royal, without scandal (except for her daughter Marina, who went through a phase) and quietly elegant like her mother.

Both Princess Margaret (born 1930) and Princess Alexandra (born 1936) had conscientious upbringings and were born in the same generation.

Whatever the era born or the parental dedication/marital respectability of the parents there is no guarantee that their children will not go off the rails.

i.e.,--

King George 111 & Queen Charlotte (George 1V, William 1V, Frederick of York, Edward of Kent, etc.)

Queen Victoria & Albert (Edward V11, Prince Alfred, Princess Louise.)

George V & Queen Mary (Edward V11, Prince George.)

George V1 and Queen Elizabeth (Princess Margaret)

Grand Duke Michael and Cecile of Baden (Grand Dukes Nicholas, Alexander, Serge & Princess Anasatsia)

Alexander 111 & the Empress Marie (In the marital realm Xenia, Olga, & Michael.)

Princess Zinaida Yusupova & Count Elston (Nicholas & Dimitri)

Grand Duke Paul and Princess Alexandra/Olga Paley (Marie, Dimitri, Irene and Natalie.)

Kaiser Wilhelm & the Empress Augusta (Most of their male line.)

Louis & Victoria of Battenberg (The highly dysfunctional union of Louis/Edwina Mountbatten)

Prince Paul & Princess Olga of Yugoslava (Princess Elizabeth)

Prince Rainer & Grace of Monico (Take your pick.)

ETC.

Ditto high profile aristocratic couples:

Lord Curzon Viceroy of India and Mary Leiter (Irene 2nd. Baroness of Revensdale & Alexandra "BaBa" Metcalfe of notorious legend.)

Winston and Clementine Churchill (i.e., Scum Dandy Randolph, also Diana & Sarah.)

Waldorf & Nancy Astor (Bobby Shaw, Waldorf, David, Michael, John. Arguably, Phyllis.)

Lord and Lady Redesdale (The entire Mitford motley, save the Duchess of Devonshire.)

ETC.

The "most likeable" Grand Duke Paul should be credited as being responsible for the upbringing of HIS OWN children Marie (born 1890) and Dimitri (born 1891) since, with the exception of the 2 years approximate when the children were under the sole guardianship of their uncle the Grand Duke Serge (Nov. 1902-March 2005), both siblings were under the custody and influence of their father or the Grand Duchess Elizabeth. For the record, it was the Grand Duke Paul's decision that Marie and Dimitri spend their summer holidays with Serge & Ella which Marie admitted were the "happiest memories of my childhood"--just as it was Paul's decision to abandon his two motherless children in favor of his married mistress & their secret illegitimate son. The "perfect marriage" of the Grand Duke Paul and his second wife were soley responsible for the upbringing of Natalie & Irene.

Generational?

Note that although Edward V11 and Queen Alexandra parented Albert Victor (Duke of Clarence) and Prince George both children grew up to have very different characters,--as did George V & Queen Mary's sons Edward (Prince of Wales) & Prince Albert--as did George V1 & the Queen Mum's Queen Elizabeth 11 and Princess Margaret.

In fact, 3 out of the 4 children of Head Of Church and State Queen Elizabeth & Prince Philip chose not emulate their parent's duty to the monarchy, i.e. their marital steadfastness,--although are making amends in their 50s & 60s.





« Last Edit: July 15, 2012, 01:52:47 PM by perdita »

Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: George and Marina, Duke and Duchess of Kent, Part 2
« Reply #317 on: July 15, 2012, 02:26:29 PM »
I don't think you can put Prince George, Duke of Kent as one off the rails. He had a wild youth, but settled down with a life of reputability with Marina. Princess Margaret with her young lovers and wild ways isn't in the same category. Marina was a stricter parent than the Queen Mum.

Offline perdita

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Re: George and Marina, Duke and Duchess of Kent, Part 2
« Reply #318 on: July 15, 2012, 02:58:52 PM »
I don't think you can put Prince George, Duke of Kent as one off the rails. He had a wild youth, but settled down with a life of reputability with Marina. Princess Margaret with her young lovers and wild ways isn't in the same category. Marina was a stricter parent than the Queen Mum.

Prince George of Kent was certainly very "wild" in his youth and there has been conjecture as to how he behaved after his marriage. Nevertheless, George and Marina appeared to have a solid relationship.

Marina may have been a stricter parent than the Queen Mum but the latter's daughter Elizabeth 11 turned out very well. Arguably, Marina was not more strict than Albert & Victoria. That didn't prevent Edward V11 from being a hedonist & reprobate--their eldest daughter the Empress Frederick was neither.

Was Olga of Yugoslava a strict mother to Princess Elizabeth?


« Last Edit: July 15, 2012, 03:04:07 PM by perdita »

Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: George and Marina, Duke and Duchess of Kent, Part 2
« Reply #319 on: July 15, 2012, 06:49:50 PM »
Yes. You cannot compare George & Marina to Margaret & Snowdon.

Indeed. But all attention was focused on Elisabeth, but not on Margaret. Marina had 3 children. All turned out stable.

Cannot compare Olga to QM. The family was exiled so many times without the stability of being raised in England.

Offline KarlandZita

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Re: George and Marina, Duke and Duchess of Kent, Part 2
« Reply #320 on: September 29, 2012, 08:08:28 AM »
Duchess of Kent wearing various fashion hats after the war :




1946


1947


Asian tour 1951


Rose day 1951




1955

Reginei Mama Elena a Romaniei

Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: George and Marina, Duke and Duchess of Kent, Part 2
« Reply #321 on: September 30, 2012, 02:29:01 PM »
Marina looked good in all kinds of hats. I wonder who made them ?

Offline Emperor of the Dominions

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Re: George and Marina, Duke and Duchess of Kent, Part 2
« Reply #322 on: September 30, 2012, 05:56:08 PM »
Marina looked good in all kinds of hats. I wonder who made them ?

Who cares?

R.I.
God save the Queen !

Offline Vecchiolarry

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Re: George and Marina, Duke and Duchess of Kent, Part 2
« Reply #323 on: September 30, 2012, 08:34:25 PM »
Hi R.I.

You're right - "Who Cares".......

What frivolous tripe this board has sometimes become because of idiot questions and statements such as these...

One day I expect to see - "Who darns the butlers socks when his toe sticks out?".........


Larry

Offline Kalafrana

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Re: George and Marina, Duke and Duchess of Kent, Part 2
« Reply #324 on: October 01, 2012, 02:32:45 AM »
Agreed. There are sensible questions about photographs and plain silly ones.

I have no problem with questions like, 'Who is the other person in the picture?' or 'How did X come to be in Wherever at that time?'

Ann

Offline CountessKate

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Re: George and Marina, Duke and Duchess of Kent, Part 2
« Reply #325 on: October 01, 2012, 09:33:25 AM »
Actually, I think it is a very interesting question.  The only milliner I have seen associated with Princess Marina is Madame Rose Vernier, a Frenchwoman based in London.  She designed hats for couturiers such as Hardy Amies, Charles Creed, Digby Morton, and Giuseppe Mattli.  She also appears to have designed a hat for Dior.  There is some indication she was around in the 1930s, but it wasn't until 1967 that she and the Baroness Stael von Holstein created the Vernier/Franka label - she did the hats and the Baroness did the costumes.  However, she opened her own premises in Dover Street in 1968.  Princess Marina patronised her through the 1950s until the end of her life, as did Princess Alexandra at least until her wedding.  There are a number of Vernier hats in the V&A, alas without pictures.  The earliest is from 1947, the last from 1967-68.  The latter was in fact worn by Princess Marina herself, for Ascot.  The other Vernier hat she wore which is in the V&A is dated 1952.  At the wedding of Princess Alexandra in 1963 she wore a hat by Vernier.  I don't know at what stage she started to patronise Vernier, but the fact the milliner was French is interesting - Edward Molyneux who designed Marina's trousseau was based in Paris and there might have been some link there. 

Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: George and Marina, Duke and Duchess of Kent, Part 2
« Reply #326 on: October 01, 2012, 04:17:51 PM »
Thanks for the information CountessKate. Marina was known for her good taste in clothes since her arrival into Britain. She had a flair that reminded people of her great aunt Alexandra of Denmark, who was the last royal trendsetter in the royal family. I know that Marina's sister Olga, Princess Paul of Yugoslavia was a faithful client of Christian Dior. I agree Marina's taste was more French than typical British.

Offline perdita

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Re: George and Marina, Duke and Duchess of Kent, Part 2
« Reply #327 on: December 10, 2012, 11:48:50 AM »
Thanks. I just feel that just because she lost her husband, she should be provided for like the rest of the RF. Indeed as one royal born, she was expected to put on a front even if it is difficult to do so. In fact her sister Olga was the same. A friend told me about Olga "Always dressed in the best clothes and in the style and dignity of a royal."  Marina was part of a generation that is moving from royalty as a birth right to more of an institution that included commoners. She wouldn't have understood the antics of her niece Princess Margaret and much less Diana, Camilla or Fergie...etc.

The Windsors are VERY rich & notoriously penurious.

The Duke of Kent was George V1's youngest brother. Prince George died (decapitated) in the serve off his country leaving a distraught young wife with children to fend for herself. The Duchess of Kent, a war widow & foreigner without family living in England, who continued to represent the royal family for decades, should never have been subjected to the indignity of publicly actioning off her private possessions (some belonging to her beloved husband) to make ends meet.

The Queen Mother's impressions of the Duke of Kent after his death:

Aug. 31 to David Bowes Lyon (brother):


"We came back here last week after ten days at Balmoral, for the funeral of poor George. it does seem a dreadful waste, and he was doing such very good work, and becoming so helpful to Bertie. We shall miss him very much, for he was always so gay, and in touch with such a wide circle--which to us is so important, and so affectionate. It really is terrible, and so few to do those sorts of jobs now."

The Queen mother was apparently on very good terms with Prince & Princess Paul of Yuguslovia. George V1 arranged that Princess Olga fly to England (briefly) from her political exile in Africa to stay with her sister Marina immediately following the Duke of Kent's death.

The Queen Mother's recently published letters are circumspect to say the least. Highly edited, discreet, & selective. Example: No where does the the "Queen Mum" mention Princess Di or Fergie. It is only noted that she was "appalled" by their self-serving antics & disloyalty to the institution of the monarchy they officially represented. (Ditto, while partaking to the full in the frills & privleges of that august lifestyle). It was implied that the Queen was particularily aghast at the Princess Di/Morton book deception & collusion.




Offline grandduchessella

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Re: George and Marina, Duke and Duchess of Kent, Part 2
« Reply #328 on: December 10, 2012, 01:19:20 PM »
I've never read George was decapitated. The descriptions of his body note that he was in relatively good condition save for a huge, deep gash on his head.

Also, the Windsors are the ones who gave Marina what money she had. Both Queen Mary (who also left her money in her will) and George VI gave her a stipend. No one in the royal family wanted to go to the British government (who also didn't step forward) to ask for money during the war and then during austerity. Marina had originally declined the pension (according to her biographer) because she felt it unseemly when so many were far worse off than she.
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Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: George and Marina, Duke and Duchess of Kent, Part 2
« Reply #329 on: December 10, 2012, 04:15:18 PM »
The problem was that when Marina married George, there wasn't any provision provided for her. Marina's grandmother-in-law (also her grand aunt) got parliament to vote for an income for  her if she becomes widowed and also pin-money too. Marina did not have any of those. When George died, the civil list payment stopped. The fact that Marina was a war widow was overlooked. Neither Churchill or his government give any info on how she would live (George's money go to trusts for his children).

Another thing on the Queen Mother's letters did she mention Marina or Wallis, I think it is interesting by both omitions. It proves that she did not like either of them, but she did remain friends with Prince Paul of Yugoslavia (and Olga too).