Author Topic: My Empress by Marfa Mouchanow - who actually wrote it and why?  (Read 76226 times)

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Offline Helen

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Re: My Empress by Marfa Mouchanow - who actually wrote it and why?
« Reply #45 on: August 02, 2010, 02:05:42 AM »
It might be, indeed, same place of birth as for Nikolay Nikolaevich, Ivanovo. I was in Butovo, at the memorial place, a few day ago...

Teddy and Helen, ten years ago I had access to GARF for another question. As I let all my studies and did not became the scholar I prepared mylself to be, I have at the moment no special authorization or recommandation. Do you know what one need to access the Archive? If it is not so difficult, I could try one day...

About M. Geringer date of birth: the russian version of this wikipedia article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedrich_von_Adelung claimed that this scientist was her father, witch place her birth no later as 1843, but not earlier as the 1820s (well could a first maid be a 80 or even 90 years old woman?). At the same time I do not know if this is relevant information. Do you? The 2 others sons of Friedrich Adelung were born at the vey beginning of the 19th century; then that means that MF was already more than 40 when she gave birth to Nikolay, whitch is possible, of course, but not so ordinary. And how could she write to her father some letters in the 1850-60 years if he died in 1843?

What a coincidence that you went to the Butovo Polygon just a couple of days ago!

:-\ There must be some error in the above-mentioned wikipedia  article, as Friedrich von Adelung cannot possibly have died in 1843 and been the father of a daughter who was born in 1859. I don't know what's wrong. One or more of the years mentioned may be wrong, or perhaps this Friedrich wasn't the father of this Maria at all.

If you're thinking about asking access to GARF documents, you could write to GARF, explaining the purpose of your research. They'll probably let you know how to proceed. And they probably provide procedural information on their website: http://statearchive.ru/index.html .
"The Correspondence of the Empress Alexandra of Russia with Ernst Ludwig and Eleonore, Grand Duke and Duchess of Hesse. 1878-1916"  -  http://www.bod.de/index.php?id=296&objk_
"Grand Duke Ernst Ludwig and Princess Alix of Hesse and by Rhine in Italy - 1893"

Offline matushka

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Re: My Empress by Marfa Mouchanow - who actually wrote it and why?
« Reply #46 on: August 02, 2010, 07:10:01 AM »
Helen, thank you, I will try in a few months, after we move in a new flat.
I read today an interesting and detailed article about the diadka of Alexei Nikolaevich, Derevenko. It was interesting to find that Derevenko wrote some letters to Maria Fedorovna Geringer at the end of 1917 (21 september, 14 november). She was in Petrograd at that time.
I could read the description of what is in GARF (letters of Geringer to Alexandra Feodorovna and Zanotti, materials about her children F. N., N. N. and daughter L. N. , materials about charity work, list of the Empress jewels.

Offline griffh

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Re: My Empress by Marfa Mouchanow - who actually wrote it and why?
« Reply #47 on: August 08, 2010, 11:32:27 AM »
Helen, thank you, I will try in a few months, after we move in a new flat.
I read today an interesting and detailed article about the diadka of Alexei Nikolaevich, Derevenko. It was interesting to find that Derevenko wrote some letters to Maria Fedorovna Geringer at the end of 1917 (21 september, 14 november). She was in Petrograd at that time.
I could read the description of what is in GARF (letters of Geringer to Alexandra Feodorovna and Zanotti, materials about her children F. N., N. N. and daughter L. N. , materials about charity work, list of the Empress jewels.


Matushka that is so kind of you to visit the GARF!  Your move into a new flat sounds quite exciting and I hope it goes easily.  Thanks again to both you and Helen for all the fascinating information.  Just to say I have not heard back from the Library of Congress as of yet.  Washington D.C. is close enough for me to make a trip to the Library if I don't hear back from them in another month or so.  Well thanks again and aslo thanks to Alixz so very much for making this thread!  Griff

Offline Teddy

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Re: My Empress by Marfa Mouchanow - who actually wrote it and why?
« Reply #48 on: August 09, 2010, 04:56:01 AM »
Maybe its a fascinating read if the documents of Madame Geringer would be published. The same goes for the memoires of Madeleine Zanotti!

Offline Helen

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Re: My Empress by Marfa Mouchanow - who actually wrote it and why?
« Reply #49 on: August 09, 2010, 06:44:30 AM »
I will try in a few months, after we move in a new flat.
I hope your move will go smoothly! :)

I could read the description of what is in GARF (letters of Geringer to Alexandra Feodorovna and Zanotti, materials about her children F. N., N. N. and daughter L. N. , materials about charity work, list of the Empress jewels.
Quote from: Teddy link=topic=15262.msg456136#msg456136 date=1281347761a
Maybe its a fascinating read if the documents of Madame Geringer would be published.
Gerjo, Madame Geringer's papers might provide clues to the identity of Marfa Mouchanow, but her papers may be too incoherent and fragmented to create an interesting and coherent publication. The papers about charity work might be interesting though!
"The Correspondence of the Empress Alexandra of Russia with Ernst Ludwig and Eleonore, Grand Duke and Duchess of Hesse. 1878-1916"  -  http://www.bod.de/index.php?id=296&objk_
"Grand Duke Ernst Ludwig and Princess Alix of Hesse and by Rhine in Italy - 1893"

Offline griffh

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Re: My Empress by Marfa Mouchanow - who actually wrote it and why?
« Reply #50 on: August 09, 2010, 01:56:35 PM »
OH Guess what?  The nicest gentleman just called me from the Library of Congress and apologized for not getting back to me sooner.  Honestly he had one of those wonderfully intelligent and at the same time, soothing voices.  He told me his name but I was too excited to remember it.  Anyway the gentleman told me that he is contacting two members of the staff, one who is a Russian authority on the collection and they will look into the authorship of the book.  I do hope that the gentleman I spoke with will email so that I can at least remain calm enough to register the information.  He said that he could make not promises that we will learn the actual identity of the author but that there is a good chance that we miight.  Too exciting for words.....

Offline blessOTMA

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Re: My Empress by Marfa Mouchanow - who actually wrote it and why?
« Reply #51 on: August 09, 2010, 04:12:47 PM »
Excellent griffh ! 

"Give my love to all who remember me."

  Olga Nikolaevna

Offline Laura Mabee

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Re: My Empress by Marfa Mouchanow - who actually wrote it and why?
« Reply #52 on: August 09, 2010, 10:12:52 PM »
Fantastic news Griffh!
Look forward to seeing this thread progress. : )

Offline griffh

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Re: My Empress by Marfa Mouchanow - who actually wrote it and why?
« Reply #53 on: August 10, 2010, 01:53:10 PM »
Excellent griffh ! 
Fantastic news Griffh!
Look forward to seeing this thread progress. : )

Hey thanks so much for your suppotive remarks! If we can establish the identity of "My Empress" we can settle the dispute about it's authenticity and thereby analysis the point of view objectively.  Again it is so very kind of Matushka to check out the material on Mme. Geringer after her move into her new flat.  Given, not only her literary career, but her responsibilities involved in raising her children, that is such a generous offer.  I just realized that I haven't even told Helen about the call yet!  I had better do that right now.     

Alixz

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Re: My Empress by Marfa Mouchanow - who actually wrote it and why?
« Reply #54 on: August 16, 2010, 12:54:52 PM »
I was asked (a long time ago) to look into the Jacques Ferrand books that I have for mention of Madame Geurringer nee Adalung.

So far I have had no luck, but I have found two mentions of Mouchanow - but spelled Moukhanoff.

Book #2 Noblesse Russe - Portraits

Page 8 -  there is a picture of Nadejda Nicolaievna Moukhanoff (* 1904) and her brother Nicolas Nicolaievich (1906-1966) with their unnamed nurse.  This picture was provided by Monsieur Nicolas N Komstadius.

On Page 11 - there is a picture of a lot of young children who are the children of Cavalry General and Aide de Camp General of His Majesty Baron Theophile Bogdanovitch Meyendorff (1838-1919) and his wife Comtesse Helene Pavlovna Schouvaloff (1857-1943).
One child is named Anastasia (1885-1976), future Madame Ilya Moukhanoff.  This picture was provided by Monsieur Pierre I Danzas

I know that both of these children are too young to be the Moukhanoff that we are looking for, but it gives us an indication that the family was high enough in status to have had their pictures taken and included in M. Ferrand's books on Russian Nobility.

I might try to scan these pictures in just for fun, (since we know they are not the woman we are looking for - but could be related) but I don't want to put my books in danger.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2010, 12:56:24 PM by Alixz »

Alixz

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Re: My Empress by Marfa Mouchanow - who actually wrote it and why?
« Reply #55 on: August 16, 2010, 12:59:31 PM »
By the way, this looking takes a great deal of time.  If anyone has the set of M. Ferrand's books Noblesse Russe - Portraits and wants to lend a hand, that would be great.

The books are printed in French and my reading of French is somewhat useful, but a true French speaker would have a much better time of it than I am.

Thanks

Offline Teddy

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Re: My Empress by Marfa Mouchanow - who actually wrote it and why?
« Reply #56 on: August 16, 2010, 01:10:21 PM »
Or maybe someone has the The Winter Palace Costume Ball 1903 book. With all the pictures of those who were invited on that ball. Maybe Madame Geringer (or Adelung) or Mouchanow or such a name appears in these volumes.

Alixz

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Re: My Empress by Marfa Mouchanow - who actually wrote it and why?
« Reply #57 on: August 16, 2010, 03:56:00 PM »
Actually there is a section in every volume of Noblesse Russe: Portraits on the 1903 Winter Palace Ball and I didn't realize how many of the pictures that I have.

I have looked through the first three volumes, but nothing on Guerringer or Adelung. (I got very "motion sick", so I hope someone can look them over again.  Also someone who reads French better than I would be faster because I have to translate everything to understand it.)

What takes the time is reading every caption to look for maiden names on in the case of the children for their future married names.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2010, 10:08:12 AM by Alixz »

Offline Laura Mabee

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Re: My Empress by Marfa Mouchanow - who actually wrote it and why?
« Reply #58 on: August 29, 2010, 12:00:40 PM »
Hey Alixz!
I will tag team the 1903 Winter Palace Ball book with you. What page did you finish on? I'll start up there and look for the name.

Alixz

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Re: My Empress by Marfa Mouchanow - who actually wrote it and why?
« Reply #59 on: September 01, 2010, 07:31:06 PM »
Laura - thanks for the offer.

I don't have the Winter Palace Ball book.  I have Noblesse Russe:  Portraits.  I just got through the first three volumes.  I had never sat down and studied it before or translated the French.  I realized that every volume of this set has a chapter on the 1903 ball.  I have amazing pictures that I didn't even know I had.

I haven't gotten back to it for a few days.