Author Topic: Russian Imperial Antique * Questions and Answers from an Expert *  (Read 42584 times)

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Offline Kiwi

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Re: Russian Imperial Antique * Questions and Answers from an Expert *
« Reply #45 on: February 13, 2011, 03:20:55 PM »
Oh I see, thank you, would there have been an award ceremony? I wonder if they where mass produced, one for every soldier! :)

Eddie,

Yes, there were elaborate centennial jubilee ceremonies where these pins were awarded.  Our family owned the 91st Dvinsk Regiment's silver service from their jubilee (1805-1905).

Dr. Konstantin Tsimbaev (history professor in Bern and Moscow) has written several papers about these ceremonies, and their historical significance.  His papers in German have been, I believe, translated in English.  The most useful to my search would translate roughly as: "Jubilee Fever in Czar Nicholas II's reign."  Google "Dr. Tsimbaev's" name, and "Jubilee Fever," and you should find the articles.

Also, see the reply to my query post under "91st Dvinsk Regiment Jubilee Ceremony" in the Militaria section on this site.  Another reader kindly posted a picture of the Tsar and Tsarina at the 91st Dvinsk Regiment's Jubilee Ceremony in Reval, Estonia (where my family lived on and off between 1914 and 1923). 

Cheers,

Kiwi   

Offline Eddie_uk

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Re: Russian Imperial Antique * Questions and Answers from an Expert *
« Reply #46 on: February 14, 2011, 03:56:13 AM »
Dear Kiwi, that is interesting! Thank you for sharing I will certainly look those up! And what a wonderful part of your family history! :)
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Offline Douglas

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Re: Russian Imperial Antique * Questions and Answers from an Expert *
« Reply #47 on: February 15, 2011, 04:12:48 PM »
When I was in the art restoration business,  a man [high school teacher] brought me a little painting [5x6] he wanted 'cleaned'.  He told me he had bought in the 'back room' of an art gallery in Spain.  It was an obvious fake. It was just a print that someone had covered with dark amber varnish, I could easily see the printing dot pattern.  The seller told him it was a "private family heirloom". Price he paid?  $450 in the 1970s.  I didn't have the heart to tell him it was a fake. I told him it was best to leave it the way it was [any cleaning would have revealed it's secret!.]
« Last Edit: February 15, 2011, 04:18:40 PM by Douglas »

aleksandr pavlovich

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Re: Russian Imperial Antique * Questions and Answers from an Expert *
« Reply #48 on: February 15, 2011, 04:38:08 PM »
  Hello, Douglas!   Nice anecdote!  Rather than say "There's one born every minute,"  I think that the most apropos one is "A fool and his money are soon parted"!  Spain is a favorite country of mine, and they can do some fantastic work in reproductions, not just a pixel-laden varnished print.  I have seen for sale (properly represented) the most beautiful "S-Curve" Madonna/s and Child statutes carved from truly old barn/storage/demolished houses' beams/rafters.
  Though this is OT, I am reminded of a friend of mine who visited an acquaintance who proudly displayed a framed black/white celebrity photo of the American movie star, Marilyn Monroe. It was definitely signed with a signature (not a printed facsimilie) that plainly said "Marilyn Monroe."  However, the very tiny print at the bottom (unfortunately not covered by the frame) showed a printing date of that specific edition that was two years AFTER her death!   Regards,  AP.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2011, 04:54:55 PM by aleksandr pavlovich »

Offline imperialrussia.com

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Re: Russian Imperial Antique * Questions and Answers from an Expert *
« Reply #49 on: March 18, 2011, 05:35:49 PM »
Dear Friends,

If you have questions about Russian Imperial Antique, I hope I can help you.

I am collecting Russian antique for many years.

Ask your questions here.

Regards, imperialrussia.com
* РУССКАЯ ИМПЕРАТОРСКАЯ КОЛЛЕКЦИЯ * ЦАРСКИЕ ПРЕДМЕТЫ АНТИКВАРИАТА *
   WWW.IMPERIALRUSSIA.COM

Naslednik Norvezhskiy

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Re: Russian Imperial Antique * Questions and Answers from an Expert *
« Reply #50 on: March 18, 2011, 06:50:58 PM »
Ask your questions here.

You still haven't satisfactorily answered the questions on page 1 of this thread, about why you identify several monogrammed items on your site as having Romanov provenance when they are adorned with mere nobles' and baronial coronets. As you can read on page 2, two knowledgeable posters strongly disagree with you.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2011, 07:03:16 PM by Фёдор Петрович »

Offline imperialrussia.com

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Re: Russian Imperial Antique * Questions and Answers from an Expert *
« Reply #51 on: March 18, 2011, 09:24:47 PM »
Every Russian Imperial item we are testing for silver (84) or gold (56) content,
and identifying silversmith (maker) and assayer.
To verify if the information is correct, we are using
many different sources, catalogs, and books.
The information we providing is free of charge.
Best Regards, ImperialRussia.com
* РУССКАЯ ИМПЕРАТОРСКАЯ КОЛЛЕКЦИЯ * ЦАРСКИЕ ПРЕДМЕТЫ АНТИКВАРИАТА *
   WWW.IMPERIALRUSSIA.COM

Naslednik Norvezhskiy

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Re: Russian Imperial Antique * Questions and Answers from an Expert *
« Reply #52 on: March 18, 2011, 09:30:49 PM »
Every Russian Imperial item we are testing for silver (84) or gold (56) content,
and identifying silversmith (maker) and assayer.
To verify if the information is correct, we are using
many different sources, catalogs, and books.
The information we providing is free of charge.
Best Regards, ImperialRussia.com


Yeah, but that doesn't say anything about the Romanov provenance you are claiming. Do you realize that many people in Imperial Russia were entitled to coronets above their monogramms, not just the Romanovs?
« Last Edit: March 18, 2011, 09:32:37 PM by Фёдор Петрович »

Offline Kiwi

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Re: Russian Imperial Antique * Questions and Answers from an Expert *
« Reply #53 on: May 16, 2014, 09:18:55 AM »
Dear Friends,

If you have questions about Russian Imperial Antique, I hope I can help you.

I am collecting Russian antique for many years.

Ask your questions here.

Regards, imperialrussia.com


I have a pair of silver (gilt worn off) kovshi from 1905 or so marked with I.K.A (so it looks in either Cyrillic or Latin print).  The company name is Morozov, but not the famous maker (it's in script with no imperial warrant).  Two other identical kovshi were sold last year (2013) at Jackson's Auction house to someone in Moscow, one had the maker's mark of Antip Kuzmi(e)chev, and the other identical marks to mine.  Also, a silver tea set with I.K.A. marks was sold in Denmark a few years ago.  Do your books show I.K.A.?  Or something similar? 

By the way, my grandfather had the punchbowl and many, many of these kovshi before the crash of 1929.  Each kovsh had a different message around the rim written in Old Russian.  I've asked for translations, but no one I know can make out the words.  One dealer, without a translation done, indicated these were "proverbs," but I'll believe that when I can translate mine.  So . . .   

Second question, can you read old Russian?  The native speakers I know aren't familiar with it. 

Thanks,  Kiwi 

My question:  Who was I.K.A.?  I've asked you about the Morozov mark, and you gave me a lead on a Sergei Morozov.  I've been asking about this maker ever since. 

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Re: Russian Imperial Antique * Questions and Answers from an Expert *
« Reply #54 on: May 16, 2014, 09:56:23 AM »
I consult with Jackson's regularly. I went into the archives and looked at the marks from last year's sale.  The "IKA" maker is unidentified and not listed in any literature. Nobody knows, so far as I can tell, who he was.  The script Morosov is likely the retailer of the pieces.

I don't know anybody who can read Slavonic, but they are indeed probably "Proverbs" or sayings relating to drink or hospitality or such.

Offline Kiwi

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Re: Russian Imperial Antique * Questions and Answers from an Expert *
« Reply #55 on: June 05, 2014, 02:33:14 PM »
I translated one of the kovshi I have (identical to the pair sold at Jacksons last year).  Found some Old Church Russian exemplars, and worked forward in time (is Old Church Russian the same as Slavonic, then?)  The 'E' was written as a stylized boat -- like a little kovsh, itself. 

Knowing about the centennial ceremonies, and the grand attention to historical Muscovite heroes (and some mythology) in the ceremonies for the regiment, the translation fits.  It's a synopsis (or rather the logline - in film terms) of Bishop George assisting Kind David of Georgia with recruiting the military might of the Kypchaks in the 12th century.  In fact, when I pronounce it (badly, of course) it reads like a palindrome. 

The other kovsh, I'm having more difficulty with.  Keep coming up with 'Kansas City" and nothing else.  Maybe it's a prediction:  "Kansas City wins pennant in 2005."  Guess I have to keep cracking at this Old Russian .  .  . Certainly can't count on these kovshi to help me wager on future sports events    ;-o) 

I don't think these kovshi were engraved with Proverbs, or drinking rhymes, given the ceremony where these were used was supposed to be very solemn.  I sure would like to know what the two sold at Jacksons and the other "Kansas City' kovsh have inscribed on them.  What I really would like to see is the huge punchbowl and other 20+ other kovshi from my grandfather's set! 

Cheers,

Kiwi 

Offline Превед

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Re: Russian Imperial Antique * Questions and Answers from an Expert *
« Reply #56 on: June 05, 2014, 03:46:24 PM »
(is Old Church Russian the same as Slavonic, then?)

Old Russian (древнерусский язык) is the common East Slavic language actually spoken in Ukraina / Kievan Rus, Belarussia and Russia up till the 14th century. The literary language of this area in this period and untill the Petrine era was Church Slavic / Slavonic (церковнославянский язык), the liturgical language of the Orthodox Church, a frozen form of the South Slavic variety Old Slavic or Slavonic (старославянский язык), which was based on Macedonian and Bulgarian varities and ceased to be a living language before the 12th century.

Note that "Slavic" and "Slavonic" actually are merely two different Occidental forms of славянский, with Slavic often used with regard to the popular language and ethnic characteristics of the West, East and South Slavs, while Slavonic is more often used with regard to the Church Slavic literary tradition.

Any literary output in Old Russian would be heavily influenced by Church Slavic.

All forms would be written with the Old Slavic font of the Cyrillic alphabet. See Википедия: Старославянская азбука
« Last Edit: June 05, 2014, 03:54:50 PM by Превед »
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