Author Topic: Duke and Duchess of Windsor Part 2  (Read 75944 times)

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Offline Selencia

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Re: Duke and Duchess of Windsor Part 2
« Reply #45 on: October 09, 2011, 03:04:15 AM »
The most I have heard about Wallis' first marriage was that it was abusive. If it was and she chose to leave that shows a lot of strength of character on her part, because most women just had to stay and deal with the situation. According to new letters, Wallis' second marriage was very satisfactory for her and she would have been happy to stay in it for the rest of her life.

Offline CountessKate

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Re: Duke and Duchess of Windsor Part 2
« Reply #46 on: October 09, 2011, 09:18:53 AM »
The most I have heard about Wallis' first marriage was that it was abusive. If it was and she chose to leave that shows a lot of strength of character on her part, because most women just had to stay and deal with the situation. According to new letters, Wallis' second marriage was very satisfactory for her and she would have been happy to stay in it for the rest of her life.

If that had indeed been the case, there seems no obvious reason why she should have become involved with the Prince of Wales at all.

Offline LadyCathy

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Re: Duke and Duchess of Windsor Part 2
« Reply #47 on: October 09, 2011, 10:11:24 AM »
As Queen Mary said, "She is an adventuress."  She did things for the challenge and the "kick" she got out of life.  I am sorry but I find it so hard to deal with her defenders.  If she was so happy with Mr. Simpson she should have stayed with him and behaved herself.  If she was unhappy with him she still did not have to stay with David Windsor and cause an international incident.  She could have left at any time.  Even the King of England could not force someone to marry him in the twentieth century.  She should have put a stop to the affair as soon as she saw it was getting out of hand.  She was certainly enough of a woman of the world to know all the signs when a man is getting obsessed. 

Offline LadyTudorRose

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Re: Duke and Duchess of Windsor Part 2
« Reply #48 on: October 09, 2011, 03:15:14 PM »
I do not think she was all that happy with Ernest. Those letters show very little about the relationship except that she cared for him in one way or another. I think she took up with the Prince because she was very starstruck and he charmed her into a relationship. If you want to defend Wallis that's one thing, but I can't stand people trying to paint David as some sort of creepo stalker because that's not fair at all. Wallis entered that relationship of her own free will, and she told him she loved him and wanted him in her life on more than one occasion in writing, so it's hard to argue about that. It's not like he picked some random woman to obsess over and trapped her into marrying him. Honestly, while I don't think Wallis would have otherwise divorced Ernest Simpson, I think they both would've ended up having affairs anyway and probably ended up leading seperate lives. I mean on more than one occasion when Wallis was given a choice she went off with David instead of Ernest, even making Ernest go to America by himself and visit her relatives alone so she could go on some trip with David and his friends. She told her Aunt Bessie specifically that her marriage to Ernest was dead and would be even if David was out of the picture. Her actions don't strike me at all as those of someone all that in love with her husband. Wallis did everything she could to avoid making an actual choice (because she was afraid of chosing wrong and missing out on something) but some where along the way when she told David she loved him and continued her relationship even after Ernest was bothered by it, she sealed her fate.

Wallis may have wasted a lot of time wondering what could've been, but I think she was happier married to David than she would've been if she'd gotten out when she still had the chance. She would have been one of those miserable old ladies who whines about the wonderful life that she could've had.

Offline Kalafrana

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Re: Duke and Duchess of Windsor Part 2
« Reply #49 on: October 10, 2011, 03:22:53 AM »
I think that once the initial relief of being married to someone who was kind-hearted and, within his means, generous, wore off, Wallis got bored with Ernest, especially once she met the Prince of Wales and was introduced to a different world (and someone who was besotted with her). Ernest seems to have been a very decent man, but fairly quiet and serious-minded and, though he was comfortably off, he wasn't rich. Yes, they might well have stayed married if she hadn't become involved with the Prince, but led fairly separate lives (especially if Aunt Bessie continued taking Wallis off on trips).

Ann

Offline LadyCathy

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Re: Duke and Duchess of Windsor Part 2
« Reply #50 on: October 11, 2011, 10:11:08 AM »
David was not a "creepy stalker" as mentioned in a prior reply.  He however might have turned into one if he had not gotten his way with Wallis.  He was obsessed to a dangerous degree with this woman.  I still believe that she was the only one who could satisfy him sexually.  She knew men.  She knew what men want and how to handle them so that they fell in love with her.  Her other affairs ran their courses and ended.  David Windsor was another matter.  If Wallis had died before he did I think he would have died shortly after from a broken heart or else killed himself to be with her.  He had serious psychological problems.

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Re: Duke and Duchess of Windsor Part 2
« Reply #51 on: October 11, 2011, 10:36:13 AM »
We will probably never know if they had a satisfactory physical relationship or not.  We don't have too much information on them except what came from their own books and papers which, I think, Wallis made sure looked good for her.

It may have been that there was no physical relationship and that was they way, by that time, that Wallis wanted it.  David has never said one way of the other, but his other mistresses would have known about his needs and wants and they kept quiet.

But it is true that David wanted her.  History shows us that as a fact in the abdication.  But I wonder if he would have found a way to abdicate (its seems he didn't want to be king) without marrying Wallis.

By the way, we always hear what Queen Mary said about Wallis, but what of George V?  Why did he let his son and heir and heir to the throne go about messing up his own life and the future of the country without saying anything about it?

Offline LadyCathy

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Re: Duke and Duchess of Windsor Part 2
« Reply #52 on: October 11, 2011, 12:50:21 PM »
Several women said he was an inadequate sexual partner.  Sex was over with him almost as soon as it began.  I absolutely believe that Wallis was educated in ways to please men sexually and deal with their possible sexual problems.   Had he been allowed to marry Wallis he would have stayed on as King.  He wanted to make her Queen Bessiewallis more than he wanted to be king himself.  He probably would not have needed much of a reason to abdicate.  The government was pleased to have him gone as he was a threat to the country concerning the Nazis.

As far as his father and mother.  They were dealing with a 40 -year-old man.  King George and Queen Mary were not the type of people to openly discuss anything really important with their children.  It was a weird family dynamic, quite usual I understand with the British aristocracy.  They will talk about the weather but not about what is bothering them the most.  I do not begin to understand it.  I do know that King George had no faith in David being a good King.  He said that the boy would ruin himself twelve months after he was dead, and he was right.

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Re: Duke and Duchess of Windsor Part 2
« Reply #53 on: October 11, 2011, 01:10:11 PM »
Why would you think that she was educated in the "way to please men"? I don't think that any of the schools she went to taught such things and her family would not have been any more open to discussing that than would the British Royal Family.

No one in the late 1890s through the early 1900s would have been. If Wallis were educated, then it would seem that she had experimented before her marriage to Win Spencer.  Although there was the affair with that Argentinian diplomat during her separation from Spencer.  Maybe she did her learning at that time?

You make her sound like a "geisha" or house madam when you say that she was "educated in the ways to please men".

I think she was just very frank and without dissembling when it came to talking to men and that was what drew David to her to begin with. 

I think I need to find another source than Greg King's book as that relies too much on the books approved by both Wallis and David for information.

Offline LadyCathy

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Re: Duke and Duchess of Windsor Part 2
« Reply #54 on: October 11, 2011, 01:16:30 PM »
Wallis might have learned sexual techniques from her lover the Argentinian bullfighter in China.  On the other hand if the dossier is true, she was educated in "sing song houses" by Chinese courtesans. 

Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: Duke and Duchess of Windsor Part 2
« Reply #55 on: October 11, 2011, 01:33:00 PM »
I must agree with Lady Cathy's assessment here. Wallis' sexual education in  China is mentioned in more than one book about her, both pro and con. She certainly was not a prude by any means. And compared to the British RF must have come across as a harlot.
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Offline Grace

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Re: Duke and Duchess of Windsor Part 2
« Reply #56 on: October 11, 2011, 03:12:41 PM »
Wallis might have learned sexual techniques from her lover the Argentinian bullfighter in China.  On the other hand if the dossier is true, she was educated in "sing song houses" by Chinese courtesans. 

I believe the "Chinese" story has already been proved false.

Offline LadyCathy

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Re: Duke and Duchess of Windsor Part 2
« Reply #57 on: October 11, 2011, 03:22:13 PM »
No it has not.

Offline LadyTudorRose

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Re: Duke and Duchess of Windsor Part 2
« Reply #58 on: October 11, 2011, 03:26:50 PM »
No it has not.
Yes it has, pretty much every biographer of either Wallis or David have attested the supposed "dossier" never existed, and that there's no evidence to suggest Wallis learned any kind of sexual techniques (or even that she was having sex with anyone) while she was in China.

Offline Grace

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Re: Duke and Duchess of Windsor Part 2
« Reply #59 on: October 11, 2011, 05:48:11 PM »
No it has not.

As well as that, the British government said it has and surely it should know!  I will have to find out more details but this came after the release of previously classified government papers which were an investigation of these allegations against the Duchess many years ago.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2011, 06:01:02 PM by Grace »