Author Topic: Alfonso de Orleans, Infante of Spain and Beatrice of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha  (Read 66144 times)

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Offline Eurohistory

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Re: Alfonso de Orleans, Infante of Spain and Beatrice of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha
« Reply #15 on: March 16, 2005, 03:15:58 PM »
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Actually, two different wedding ceremonies - rather than a mixed service.  The King restored all titles, etc., not too long afterward.


Titles were restored to Alfonso in 1912 I believe.

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Re: Alfonso de Orleans, Infante of Spain and Beatrice of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha
« Reply #16 on: March 16, 2005, 03:44:34 PM »
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Ok then I am not losing my mind.  :D There are/were rumors about Alfonso XIII and Bee being involved in somthing.

Ok I am now trying to understand the genealogy a bit her:
Bee's husband Alfonso was cousin to King A XIII because he was the child of his aunt Eulalia.

A breakdown:
Eulalia and Alfonso XII were both children of Isabel II.

Eulalia married Duke Antioine of Montpensier (of the Bourbon-Orleans family). There eldest  (?) was Bee's husband Alfonso.

Alfonso XII was obviosly the father of Alfonso XIII. Thus they were first cousins.

Ok I think I got that down. The Bourbons are so confusing, as they were so intwined and encluded many members of both the Spanish and French royal families.


Isabel II and Luisa Fernanda were sisters - daughters of Ferdinand VII and Maria Cristina (née Bourbon-Two Sicilies).

Isabell II married her first cousin Infante don Francisco de Asís of Spain, who was given the title of King Consort.  Their marriage was a disaster and one of the Queen's children was King Alfonso XII, while another was Infanta Eulalia.

Luisa Fernanda and Montpensier had also a large numbe rof children, many of whom died in infancy or puberty.  Their eldest daughter was Isabel (1848-1919), who married the Count of Paris (1838-1894) - one of their daughters was Luisa, who married as his second wife Infante Carlos of Bourbon-Two Sicilies, their eldest daughter, Maria de las Mercedes, being the mother of King Juan Carlos...which makes the present king a descendant of Montpensier!

Infanta Eulalia married her first cousin Antonio, only surviving son of Montpensier and Luisa Fernanda...Eulalia and Antonio's marriage was nothing short of disastrous.  They had two sons, Alfonso (who married Beatrice Coburg) and Luis Fernando, a scandalous homosexual, who maried Marie Say, a wealthy Frenchwoman, more than double his age.

Alfonso XIII and Alfonso de Orleans were first cousins, as were Victoria Eugenia and Beatrice.

Arturo Beéche
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Eurohistory »
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Re: Alfonso de Orleans, Infante of Spain and Beatrice of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha
« Reply #17 on: March 16, 2005, 03:46:06 PM »
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Don'T forget the Italian branch, that will really make your soup bubble !


which Italian branch Bobby?  The Bourbon-Two Sicilies?

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Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: Alfonso de Orleans, Infante of Spain and Beatrice of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha
« Reply #18 on: March 16, 2005, 03:55:14 PM »
Yes, Arturo. The 2 Sicilies/Naples/Carlists/et al.
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Offline PrinceEddy1864

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Re: Alfonso de Orleans, Infante of Spain and Beatrice of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha
« Reply #19 on: March 16, 2005, 07:40:45 PM »
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Isabel II and Luisa Fernanda were sisters - daughters of Ferdinand VII and Maria Cristina (née Bourbon-Two Sicilies).

Isabell II married her first cousin Infante don Francisco de Asís of Spain, who was given the title of King Consort.  Their marriage was a disaster and one of the Queen's children was King Alfonso XII, while another was Infanta Eulalia.

Luisa Fernanda and Montpensier had also a large numbe rof children, many of whom died in infancy or puberty.  Their eldest daughter was Isabel (1848-1919), who married the Count of Paris (1838-1894) - one of their daughters was Luisa, who married as his second wife Infante Carlos of Bourbon-Two Sicilies, their eldest daughter, Maria de las Mercedes, being the mother of King Juan Carlos...which makes the present king a descendant of Montpensier!

Infanta Eulalia married her first cousin Antonio, only surviving son of Montpensier and Luisa Fernanda...Eulalia and Antonio's marriage was nothing short of disastrous.  They had two sons, Alfonso (who married Beatrice Coburg) and Luis Fernando, a scandalous homosexual, who maried Marie Say, a wealthy Frenchwoman, more than double his age.

Arturo Beéche


If I had read this post yesterday evening most of it would have seemed like piglatin but as I read it this evening I recognized and was able to place all of the people Art mentioned that I did not in my post. I am just too thrilled about my "new" interest in the Spanish Royals and the Bourbons. Yah. Most of it came from this new section here on the board. I am so glad this Iberian Royal Families part was added. It was a splendid idea.  :D
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Offline Eurohistory

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Re: Alfonso de Orleans, Infante of Spain and Beatrice of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha
« Reply #20 on: March 16, 2005, 09:08:43 PM »
One of my hopes since I started The European Royal History Journal has been to somewhat encourage our readership to expan their royal areas of interest.  Many tend to be only intereste din a narrow number of families (Hesse, Windsor, Romanov).  This really cheats royalty watchers out of learning more about other royal families, which perhaps inthe English language have not been as widely dealt with as they should have.

The ERHJ hence has helped fill in the blanks for our readers by exposing them to lesser kown, yet equally interesting, royal families.

As a Latin American of Spanish ancestry, I grew up interested in the Spanish Royal Family, to which we pay more attention than to the Windsors, logically.  This forum is an effort therefore, to share information on these "Iberian" and Catholic dynasties and I am delighted that the APA acceted my suggestion to have it and manage it.  I hope I can do a decent job at doing so.

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Offline PrinceEddy1864

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Re: Alfonso de Orleans, Infante of Spain and Beatrice of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha
« Reply #21 on: March 16, 2005, 09:13:49 PM »
Good to hear.

I am glad you are here Art to help us out in our search for knowledge on the Spanish. You obviously have a good amount of knowledge on them and a good backround in this area of Royal study.
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Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: Alfonso de Orleans, Infante of Spain and Beatrice of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha
« Reply #22 on: March 16, 2005, 11:44:04 PM »
Arturo, I know you can handle this question with ease- how does the White Bourbon claim [Duc d'Anjou]?]  not supercede the Orleans claim ? Being the senior dynastic line [all repect to both families, btw] . And of course, you know this will spill over to the melting pot of 2 Sicilies.
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Re: Alfonso de Orleans, Infante of Spain and Beatrice of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha
« Reply #23 on: March 17, 2005, 05:29:20 AM »
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Kirill and Ducky married without permission - the marriage was eventually accepted on July 15, 1907.



When did Beatrice marry 1908?

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Offline Eurohistory

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Re: Alfonso de Orleans, Infante of Spain and Beatrice of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha
« Reply #24 on: March 17, 2005, 09:26:57 AM »
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Arturo, I know you can handle this question with ease- how does the White Bourbon claim [Duc d'Anjou]?]  not supercede the Orleans claim ? Being the senior dynastic line [all repect to both families, btw] . And of course, you know this will spill over to the melting pot of 2 Sicilies.


Legitimiste theory believes that the rights held by members of the Freench royal family hold inalienable succession rights, meaning they cannot ever be renounced.  That having been said, when Europe's peace was restored after the French King, Louis XIV, accepted, as did his grandson King Felipe V of Spain, that for a Bourbon to seat on the Spanish throne, he would have to give up his rights and those of his descendants, which Felipe and Louis did so without much chagrin.  This agreement, known in history as the Treaty of Utrecht, was designed to supersede any French law regarding the possibility of either the Spanish or French monarch ever seating on both thrones.

Hence, don Luis Alfonso does not have, nor has he ever had, unless you are an Orleans-hating Legitimiste, French dynastic rights.

The issue with Legitimistes is that they cannot find it in their hearts to forgive Philippe Egalité for having voted for the execution of his cousin King Louis XVI.  The errors of the Duc d'Orléans (Philippe Egalité) should not serve to condemn his descendants for three centuries.

Besides, not one Royal House in Europe recognizes or has ever recognized the Legitimiste cause.

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Re: Alfonso de Orleans, Infante of Spain and Beatrice of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha
« Reply #25 on: March 17, 2005, 09:29:15 AM »
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When did Beatrice marry 1908?

TampaBay


Beatrice and Alfonso married in 15 July 1909 at Schloß Rosenau, Coburg.

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Re: Alfonso de Orleans, Infante of Spain and Beatrice of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha
« Reply #26 on: March 21, 2005, 10:12:29 AM »
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When did Beatrice marry 1908?

TampaBay


The marriage of Alfonso and Beatrice was the source of much chagrin for the bridal couple and her mother.  The King had given Alfonso verbal approval of his choice of bride, Alfonso did not notify him officially nor did he do so to the Spanish Prime Minister, the reason resting with the fat that beatrice did not want to change religion and become a follower of Rome.

The Spanish government were most unhappy with this decision and had expressed their displeasure with the situation.  When news of Alfonso's Rosenau wedding reached Madrid, the Spanish Prime Minister was terribly upset and seems to have convinced the King to lash out against his first cousin and his new wife.

The Duchess of Coburg was furious with the King of Spain's actions and sent a letter of protest in the strongest terms to former Queen Regent Maria Christina, who was thus involved in the mess.

Arturo Beéche
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Re: Alfonso de Orleans, Infante of Spain and Beatrice of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha
« Reply #27 on: March 21, 2005, 10:36:37 AM »
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The marriage of Alfonso and Beatrice was the source of much chagrin for the bridal couple and her mother.  The King had given Alfonso verbal approval of his choice of bride, Alfonso did not notify him officially nor did he do so to the Spanish Prime Minister, the reason resting with the fat that beatrice did not want to change religion and become a follower of Rome.

Arturo Beéche


I had read of this & wondered then was the law in Spain far stricter than that in Russia. Alfonso was not likely to become king was he? So was EVERYONE marrying into any branch of the family expected to convert to Catholicism? (Which didn't happen in Russia with Orthodoxy, did it.)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by bluetoria »

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Re: Alfonso de Orleans, Infante of Spain and Beatrice of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha
« Reply #28 on: March 21, 2005, 10:50:06 AM »
I think that Spain was as demanding about the religious issue as the laws governing marriages into the British royal family, a law that persists in the UK to this day.

When reading the Russian law what it actually sayd, if I am not incorrect in this, is that the TSAR's spouse must be orthodox, which then makes one believe that a member of the Imperial Family could marry a non-Orthodox, as some did, prior to becoming Tsar.  I believe, and without pre-checking, that KR, Vladimir Alexandrovich and Kirill Vladimirovich al married women who did not immediately convert to Orthodoxy upon marriage and all these unions were registered n the Imperial family book and accepted by the Tsar as legal and valid.

Arturo Beéche
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Re: Alfonso de Orleans, Infante of Spain and Beatrice of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha
« Reply #29 on: March 21, 2005, 08:59:47 PM »
Here's a passage from Missy's memoirs:

' Baby was very musical and was a greater authority on Wagner than I was and, later, when she married the Infante Alfonso of Orleans-Bourbon, they became passionate devotees of Bayreuth; there was not a note of the music nor a word of the libretto that they did not know by heart. Ali, was we called her husband, was quite one of the most perfect human beings I have ever met. At first, my sister being Protestant, there were great difficulties about the marriage and for a time he was not allowed to reappear in Spain, so they remained with Mamma, but that is a whole story of its own and cannot find place in these pages. They were a delightful and original couple, stimulating company, amusing, unconventional, and always full of quaint principles and ideas. '

This could explain them being at Coburg in times after the wedding. Also, Leo Battenberg had apparently carried a tendre for Baby Bee and he is sometimes seen in these gatherings. He was at the wedding as well. Again--a first cousin situation. Poor Leo.  :(
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