Author Topic: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II  (Read 109603 times)

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Offline shvic300

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Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
« Reply #150 on: June 14, 2013, 04:28:39 AM »
here is a good description of how such things are done. who can read russian is good. for those who can not it will be hard ... )
http://www.eifgaz.ru/orden.htm

Offline Svetabel

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Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
« Reply #151 on: June 14, 2013, 11:44:51 AM »
Schvic300,

please make us clear how Goran Bregovic and the article about ...about what? (I do read Russian) ,well,how they are related to this topic on Archduke Otto? Possibly I missed something.

Offline shvic300

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Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
« Reply #152 on: June 16, 2013, 11:47:32 AM »

Fine, I'll do it

Offline shvic300

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Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
« Reply #153 on: June 16, 2013, 12:05:29 PM »
...at least Marie Schleinzer,  Julius Cohn Hortenau, also Hildegard Adam Hortenau and her brother have been actively involved in this story.  Also Karl and his child. I think it has to do with Otto, since it was he who binds all these people. Why not? ) About Goran Bregovich and his song...a little later)

Offline amelia

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Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
« Reply #154 on: June 16, 2013, 04:26:46 PM »
I am also very interested to know about this story.....soplease explain. Thanks Amelia

Offline shvic300

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Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
« Reply #155 on: June 17, 2013, 02:01:43 AM »
well, continue)

The story is directly related to Otto. We can relate to the following topic now to see that. I think most people understand that the man of such a level as was Otto… that their lives are few random. The appearance of Marie Schleinzer is not an eventuality also.

Pls, look here:
1853, Emperor Franz Joseph survived an assassination attempt
1889, death (assassination) of Crown Prince Rudolf
1898, assassination of Empress Elisabeth (remember that she was replaced by Katarina Schratt and in 1918 Karl was escorted by Edward Lisle Strutt, the british officer with the very in tune with the surname)
1909 Morganatic marriage of Ferdinand Karl of Austria and in 1911 he was expelled from the house of Habsburg by Emperor Franz Joseph.
1914, Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria was murdered in Sarajevo

We see that it was a permanent attack on the emperor and to the heirs.
The appearance of Marie Schleinzer and the death of Otto in 1906 has its place in this series.

Who was Julius Cohn the next Marie Schleinzer husband? It is well known that he was spa-doctor. But it was not his main profession. Now we would say that his main profession was the physician geneticist. He worked on heredity and as a result he was associated with dynastic marriages and the birth of heirs. His adoptive (?) son Alfred was the same later.

http://cdonner.com/john-f-kennedys-austrian-son.htm
Here is the story of one of such cases. Put simply, they took DNA material through this for future use.

The recent case of Monica Lewinsky was the same. Not by Julius, of course. ))) Despite the miracles which he did i think he was dead already…)))

Offline shvic300

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Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
« Reply #156 on: June 19, 2013, 05:16:25 AM »
Let's talk about some public pictures.



Who knows the other story, pls tell it. I know the next version. The card belonged to the russian empire secret police archives. They obtained it from one of the foreign agents. German «geb.» means «geboren» = born. But the inscription could read in russian too and thus would means a «girl».


Looking at the public images many people have seen Karl's child born in 1912 as a girl. It is very obvious.



I know the same thing and moreover that Karl had just 1 child Adelheid Maria, then simply Maria. And also know as on her birth Maria told. "... when my dad went to war, he told my mom about a gold ring for a boy… but, I was born ..." And after these words she became very sad.
It was a time of the First Balkan War, which lasted from October 1912 to May 1913.



A lot of attention Karl was paid just for this child.



That Goran Bregovich song was about the name Maria. But, it does not apply to the story, of cause.

Why and under what circumstances Osterrich family decided to hide the event i am not prepared to say. I can only assume that the well-known postcard Drei Generationen speaks in favor of the fact that they were very afraid of civil war risk as already happened in the time of Maria Theresia.



It is not clear yet with one child, Rudolph.
I know exactly that he had a dissenting opinion on the story that I tell now. Also it looks like after 1918 Karl touches only to Rudolf. With other children he has nothing. Of course if it is not a fake pictures  at all.





8th February 1921, it is just befor attempt to regain the Hungarian throne on 24 March 1921


Rudolph's first wife was russian. Later, they both were in serious car accident. She died. Rudolph was seriously injured. His story is very different from the other children. His eldest daughter lives in Moscow.

Who are the other children? I do not know for sure. They are not the children of Karl.
I'm not sure that all of them gave birth Zita.

Karl Franz Josef (1887 - 1922), the last Emperor of Austria and the last King of Hungary and Bohemia, in exile in Switzerland with his wife Zita, 8th February 1921. From left to right, Count Hunyady, Count Esterhazy, the Emperor and Empress.

But Zita free of child. See the previous picture, too. They are a single date. Rudolph was born 5 September 1919 and he is really there about 1.5 years. But Charlotte should appear in 2 months on March 1, 1921...

Maria said about Adelheid Habsburg: "There's some girl instead of me".
That girl died in Pöcking, Bavaria in 1971. She was buried in the Tyrolean village of Tulfes, near Innsbruck, Austria. Zita was not present.



It's hard to say who is the father of the famous Otto Habsburg. Very likely he totally belongs to this family.

Sixtus is sitting.



 

Offline shvic300

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Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
« Reply #157 on: June 19, 2013, 05:18:52 AM »
On my opinion it is correct to call this branch as House of Braganza-Saxe-Coburg and Gotha, that is, through the female line. Because:
1) Robert I Parma died in 1907 and had nothing to do with second marriage children fraud
2) The same is true for Robert first marriage children. Their men had served in the Austrian army during WWI

Although Zita in her statements insisted that they are Bourbon Parma. But these two sisters of Braganza-Saxe-Coburg and Gotha have actively participated in all the intrigues:

1) Maria Theresa of Portugal (24 August 1855 - 12 February 1944), the 3d wife of Karl Ludwig of Austria (30 July 1833 - 19 May 1896). “Maria Theresa managed to obtain considerable influence at the Austrian court when Empress Elisabeth effectively withdrew from the social scene in Vienna after the suicide of her only son, Crown Prince Rudolf, in January 1889. Maria Theresa stood in for the Empress and carried out honours at the Hofburg Imperial Palace with the Emperor until the death of her husband in 1896 when court etiquette ruled she had to go into retirement”
2) Maria Antonia of Portugal (November 28, 1862 - May 14, 1959), 2nd wife of Robert I Parma (9 July 1848 - 16 November 1907). She was the mother of Zita, Sixtus and the other brothers. Also she was a postman in the scam with a peace letter of Karl...)
How many know they both escorted Karl up to Madeira then...

“Sixtus affair” is much broader, that only the well-known peace negotiations in 1916-1917, where Karl was shown as a weak and not reliable ruler.




Zita in circle of her family: Xavier, Sixtus , Maria Antonia. Villa Pianore.

It looks like Braganza-Saxe-Coburg and Gotha family try to get up instead of Osterrich family for almost 100 years.
It is noticeable that also Jesuits are active involved in the case – future warder of Karl “British officer, Lt-Colonel Edward Lisle Strutt was a Catholic educated by Jesuits at Beaumont College, and at Innsbruck and Oxford Universities”.

Remember, Karl  did not ask for exile, nor for Madeira.
“…After a difficult few months at Eckartsau, the Imperial Family received aid from an unexpected source. Prince Sixtus had met King George V and appealed to him to help the Habsburgs”.  

O! Prince Sixtus ask! It was the selfless aid from an unexpected source on the way to Madeira!)))

“Malta was mooted as a possibility, but was declined by Lord Curzon, and French territory was ruled out due to the possibility of Zita's brothers intriguing on Charles's behalf…”.  
Zita's brothers intriguing on Charles's behalf! Very interesting!)
Looks like Zita's brothers intrigue together with King George V and Lord Curzon… on Charles's behalf.

Do not forget Karl was a prisoner in Eckartsau. After he was moved to Switzerland, he became a prisoner of Braganza-Saxe-Coburg and Gotha and their british friends.
Do not forget all this time Karl did not know anything about the fate of his daughter Maria.


Now something about Zita famous speech:

“…Leaving behind their children at Gödöllő, Charles and Zita travelled to the Schönbrunn Palace. By this time ministers had been appointed by the new state of "German-Austria", and by 11 November, together with the emperor's spokesmen, they prepared a manifesto for Charles to sign. Zita, at first glance, mistook it for an abdication and made her famous statement "A sovereign can never abdicate. He can be deposed... All right. That is force. But abdicate — never, never, never! I would rather fall here at your side. Then there would be Otto. And even if all of us here were killed, there would still be other Habsburgs!"

Why Zita was scared so much?) Let's say about later.

Now let's take a look at these her words:
“…I would rather fall here at your side. Then there would be Otto…”
Which Otto did she mean? What line of succession she said about? Karl was standing next to her right now… Apparently these words were not about Karl successor. These words were about other Otto, about the new one, who did not inherit Karl, but succeeded Zita's line.
Zita worried greatly! Because of this we heard so much new now.

Do not forget that on 11/11/1918 and up to Karl death Zita had only titles:
Empress consort of Austria
Queen consort of Hungary and Bohemia
She was not a monarch. She was just the spouse of monarch. And thus she had no heirs.

If it is still interesting, then next time let's talk about how and where “old Otto” (=Maria) disappeared in the late October 1918…

In conclusion, this is concerning “lady in dark” and her family.
http://sousamendesfoundation.org/habsburg/

DE BRAGANCE, Antonia (age 78)
DEGENFELD, Count Henry (age 50)
HABSBURG, Adelheid (age 26)
HABSBURG, Carl Ludwig (age 22)
HABSBURG, Charlotte (age 19)
HABSBURG, Elizabeth (age 18)
HABSBURG, Felix (age 24)
HABSBURG, Crown Prince Otto (age 28)
HABSBURG, Robert (age 25)
HABSBURG, Rudolf (age 20)
HABSBURG, Empress Zita née BOURBON-PARME (age 48)

The above visas were issued by Aristides de Sousa Mendes in Bordeaux in June 1940, allowing the Imperial Family of Austria to escape the Nazis and effectively saving the life of the Crown Prince Otto von HABSBURG who had been sentenced to death by the Nazis following the Anschluss, the German annexation of Austria.

Offline Svetabel

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Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
« Reply #158 on: June 19, 2013, 09:21:54 AM »
If you want to discuss Emperor's Karl children there are topics on him/his family and Archduke Otto.

Offline Carolath Habsburg

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Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
« Reply #159 on: June 19, 2013, 09:50:31 AM »
I told him and he doesnt care.

You NEED  to read about children fashion from victorian era early 20th century when MOSTLY of little boys wore SKIRTS and mostly of them had long hair too!!

You can see a lots of examples such as King Manuel II of Portugal who had long babana curls....and he wasnt a girl
Even Tsar Nicholas II wore little femenine gowns with  ribbons and stuff....and he wasnt a girl

I can spend the whole day posting examples of this. Soplease take the time to investigate in google. There are plenty of sites about this  

Ps: The card found in the "Russian empire secret police archives" was posted a loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong time ago here

http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=1983.240

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"...Пусть он землю бережет родную, А любовь Катюша сбережет....". Grand Duchess Ekaterina Fyodorovna to Grand Duke Georgiy Alexandrovich. 1914

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Offline Dru

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Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
« Reply #160 on: June 19, 2013, 05:25:20 PM »


Zita.  My apologies if it's been posted before.

Offline shvic300

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Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
« Reply #161 on: June 20, 2013, 12:48:02 AM »
Hi Svetabel! Hi Carolath!  Why you do not wonder? These all are directly related to Otto of Austria. Read on and find out news about Hildegard and others. Why not?

Offline Kalafrana

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Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
« Reply #162 on: June 20, 2013, 03:58:48 AM »
Otto von Habsburg may have looked more like a Bourbon-Parma than a Habsburg, but all that means is that he took after his mother's family. Nothing strange in that.

Ann

Offline Svetabel

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Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
« Reply #163 on: June 20, 2013, 06:19:22 AM »
Hi Svetabel! Hi Carolath!  Why you do not wonder? These all are directly related to Otto of Austria. Read on and find out news about Hildegard and others. Why not?

If you continue to post here info on Emperor's Karl family - all your posts will be merged with the proper topics. If you want to convince us that former Archduke Otto was not Habsburg or such like - do show us REAL proof, otherwise please don't confuse other posters with obscure links like Bregovic's songs.

Offline amelia

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Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
« Reply #164 on: June 20, 2013, 07:24:15 AM »
Well said, Svetabel!!!!!