Author Topic: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II  (Read 111944 times)

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Offline Greenowl

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Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
« Reply #165 on: June 20, 2013, 07:41:00 AM »
Well said, Svetabel!!!!!

I quite agree...the whole thing makes absolutely no sense to me.

Cheers,
GREENOWL

Offline Carolath Habsburg

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Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
« Reply #166 on: June 20, 2013, 09:06:51 AM »
Well said, Svetabel!!!!!

I quite agree...the whole thing makes absolutely no sense to me.

Cheers,
GREENOWL

+3

Its just genetics..,.dark genes are ALWAYS predominant!!. I married a ginger hair man with green eyes and my son luckily have spots of blonde/reddish hair and brown eyes as me.

Otto is IDENTIC to his maternal branch, the Borbon-Parma . Just look at the pics of that branch.

Courtesy of Grand Duchess Ally

"...Пусть он землю бережет родную, А любовь Катюша сбережет....". Grand Duchess Ekaterina Fyodorovna to Grand Duke Georgiy Alexandrovich. 1914

Join the cause "We want an Ignore button

Offline Kalafrana

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Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
« Reply #167 on: June 20, 2013, 09:59:29 AM »
Going back to less controversial areas, there was a very powerful resemblance between Karl and his brother Maximilian.

Ann

Offline shvic300

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Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
« Reply #168 on: June 20, 2013, 12:26:11 PM »
Excuse me please, but do not understand what hurt such beautiful ladies? This is the history! The truth born in the discussions! There are a very interesting historical materials. It's all on the facts! A lot of people are browsing, take a look at the counter of the branch, and there are no serious objections from anyone on the content! Let's work together to specify if some details are not correct. Let's discuss! I will be very happy to have such support from the lovely ladies like you!  Look the next and change yours opinion, please!

GÖDÖLLŐ

http://www.gvkik.hu/wiki/index.php5/Zita_kir%C3%A1lyn%C3%A9
Chapter "Gödöllő és Zita" describes the events of late October 1918. Original text:

…1918 őszén látogattak először Gödöllőre, hogy itt töltsenek néhány hetet. A békés, családi együttlét helyett a háború, a forradalom szele Gödöllőre ért. 1918. október 23-án este a gyerekek lefektetése után a várható eseményeket találgatta Zita és férje. A királyi családot itt, a kastélyban érte a monarchia összeomlásának híre. A legfontosabb hírt, Károlyi Mihály személyesen hozta Gödöllőre: megalakult a Magyar Nemzeti Tanács. A beszámoló hírére a király bejelentette, nem vesz részt a magyarországi események operatív irányításában, és jelezte: Károlyit kívánja kinevezni miniszterelnöknek. Az uralkodó pár és a kijelölt kormányfő október 26-án éjszaka Gödöllőről együtt utazott Bécsbe. Gyermekeik azonban még néhány napig Gödöllőn maradtak. Ottó trónörökös és testvérei 29-én még ellátogattak a Máriabesnyői kegytemplomba, ahol a Historia Domus szerint magyarul imádkozták a Miatyánkot, az Üdvözlégyet és a Hiszekegyet. Másnap már nekik is menekülniük kellett…

Two last sentences translated:

… On 29th [October 29, 1918] Crown Prince Otto and his brothers also attended the Máriabesnyő church, where according to the Historia Domus Hungarian prayed the Lord's Prayer, the Hail Mary and the Creed. The next day he had to flee. (!)

Clarification:
- Máriabesnyő town was destroyed during the Turkish occupation, there are Godollo city about 5km off
- Historia Domus, the earliest chronicle of the Banat Bulgarians
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banat_Bulgarians
The Banat Bulgarians (Banat Bulgarian: palćene or banátsći balgare; common Bulgarian: банатски българи, banatski balgari) are a distinct Bulgarian minority group which settled in the 18th century in the region of the Banat, which was then ruled by the Habsburgs and after World War I was divided between Romania, Serbia, and Hungary.








Thus 1-st Otto (Maria) disappeared October 30, 1918. So, in Gödöllő left 4 children.

But, October 31, 1918 they again become 5!

Warren Evening Times /Monday, November 04, 1918 /
http://newspaperarchive.com/warren-evening-times/1918-11-04
Emperor Charles Children disappeared in two autos
Zurich, Nov.4,-The five children of Emperor Charles  left the Godollo  Palace on Thursday [October 31, 1918] in two automobiles and have not be heard from since, it was reported by the Frankfort Gazette. The Godollo Palace is in Hungary near Budapest and was occupied by the emperor in his capacity as King of Hungary.

However, we have known that at this time one of the Zita brothers appeared in Godollo. And he was  who takes away children in cars.
Not hard to guess where from and how the new 2-nd Otto came.
 
Later, Maria herself so described the events on October 30, 1918: "... We hid under the stairs. It was dark. There was an explosion. Strongly screaming. The fire started. And all ran there. And we ran out to the garden... "

Then there was the train carried Maria faraway from Austria... The child was riding accompanied by Hildegard. In one of the neighboring cars drove a man who accompanied them. Along the way he repeatedly went to them. His name is unknown. But, there is speculation that he was either Julius or his son Alfred.

Later have seen Hildegaed and Julius as a couple.


Maria understood just a bit. She knew only that "so right". So it was explained to her. And she believed it. Because Maria’s mother was preparing her for the journey ahead. "Mom had a big gold clip-on earrings, which she loved. She gave them to a jeweler and he made two pairs of identical earrings. One pair mother has left herself. A second passed me, so I can be found later ... ".







That's such a sad story.

Thank you all for your patience!

PS.
Nowhere is the Hildegard date of death. I think because, as already explained, she disappeared along with Maria. Hildegard died in 1975, far from Austria, alone, like her mother, Marie Adam Schleinzer in Opatija. Hildegard from 1919 got very sad she could not play the piano more…

The end )   

Offline Svetabel

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Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
« Reply #169 on: June 20, 2013, 01:03:28 PM »
Excuse me please, but do not understand what hurt such beautiful ladies?

Excuse US,please, but we try to understand your point and the sense of your postings...and personally I can't find that point. I can't find any real proof of your 'researches' either. WHAT exactly you want to say? Another survival topic? Any misterious events? Do enlighten us. We are not hurt, just make your postings more clear.

Offline shvic300

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Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
« Reply #170 on: June 21, 2013, 01:19:02 AM »
Dear Svetabel! Thanks for your hospitality in the topic! Certainly I agree with the transfer. I'll try to write something like that more would cover the topic more fully. I hope the other participants will help me also! And it will be interesting for many.)

Offline britt.25

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Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
« Reply #171 on: July 29, 2013, 03:12:37 AM »
I have never heard that Karl I. was maybe not Otto von Habsburgs father. As there is no real proof at the moment (I personally don't believe this story as long as there is no evidence) I would prefer to open a single topic on this "thesis", because this topic here is called " Emperor Karl of Austria and Empress Zita". Thanks.
La vérité est plus importante que l'amour

     Marie Bonaparte (1882-1962)

Offline shvic300

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Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
« Reply #172 on: August 03, 2013, 10:14:18 PM »
Dear Britt.25, at these postcards you can see how the daughter of Carl looked.







Offline shvic300

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Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
« Reply #173 on: August 09, 2013, 01:40:07 PM »
There was one more story that influenced the fate of the daughter of Charles...

I'll write about it a little later ...

Thanks to everyone who is interested in this story and read.
I think it is important to convey the true story of undistorted to our descendants.
So that they can make the right choice at one time.

Offline JamesAPrattIII

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Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
« Reply #174 on: September 05, 2013, 04:31:39 PM »
I have some comments on Karl and Zita:
Their visit to the ottoman empire was in the 3rd week of may 1918. The old man with the white beard in the bemedaled uniform in section I reply 220 looks like the Sultan Muhammed V. I am not 100% sure. The dark grey uniform Karl is wearing in the painting in section I reply 3 with the red trouser stripes was from the 1916 or 1917-1918 period. Before that the Austrio-Hungarian army wore a pike grey (sort of a light blue gray uniform). They adopted the darker field grey uniform in the fall of 1915.
 The Osprey books by peter jung "The Austro-Hungarian forces in WW I (1) 1914 and (2) 1916-18 have both pictures and color prints of the uniforms. (2) has a color profile of Karl and gives details of his medals along with a picture of him.

The book Air Aces of the Austro-Hungarian Empire by Martin D O'Conner I believe has a number of other pictures of Karl. Including one of him giving the Imperial handshake to an officer. (Yes believe it or not there was an imperial handshake).

I hope this was of some interest or use.

Offline Greenowl

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Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
« Reply #175 on: September 05, 2013, 06:27:13 PM »
I think you are correct about Sultan Mohamed V. I have never heard of the Imperial handshake, that is new to me!! Could you describe it?

Thanks and cheers,
GREENOWL (Monika)

Offline JamesAPrattIII

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Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
« Reply #176 on: September 06, 2013, 02:37:32 PM »
It something like this the person shaking hands with the emperor holds out his hand palm up like someone is about to drop a coin into his hand. The Emperor sticks his hand out and lowers it into other persons hand. It's been awhile since I have seen the picture.

For more information on the Austrian empire in WW I go to the axis history forum.com where in their WW I section they have a section on Austria Hungary. Nothing on Karl or Zita yet. For WW I information in general go to the great war forum.com

Offline Greenowl

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Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
« Reply #177 on: September 07, 2013, 04:30:28 AM »
Thank you...I must study some of the old photos! Just goes to show that one can learn something new every day.

Cheers,
GREENOWL

Offline KarlandZita

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Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
« Reply #178 on: September 28, 2013, 08:59:58 AM »
Ex-Kaiserin Zita with her children in exile :

Reginei Mama Elena a Romaniei

Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
« Reply #179 on: September 30, 2013, 06:15:06 PM »
Zita was fertile like her mother.