Author Topic: Duke Ferdinand of Parma, his wife Maria Amalia,their family  (Read 158112 times)

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Offline CountessKate

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Re: Duke Ferdinand of Parma, his wife Maria Amalia,their family
« Reply #120 on: April 12, 2010, 06:16:29 AM »
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According to Storia di Parma, the Court of Parma had 100 people in 1749, excluding the guards, servants and other lackeys. Du Tillot wanted to trim down the costs of the court before he was dismissed.  But by 1776, it seems that there were more people than ever: the grand chamberlain had 70 gentlemen in his department, 15 doctors/surgeons,  21 various musicians and head of music,  27 ladies-in-waiting,  a great almoner, first chaplain, 3 other chaplains,  a chief steward and his 19 butlers, 3 architects, 2 heads of the kitchens, etc. Then a special mention for more maids in the apartments of the duchess.  I guess Amalia kept on hiring more servants.

A charmingly modest establishment.  There were about 900 royal staff in the King's household under Louis XIV, and 500 in Marie Antoinette's - and that excluded the much more modest households of Mesdames the King's aunts, his unmarried sister and his brothers.  His brothers however would have had households not far off the size of Parma's.  Louis XVI reduced his household twice, in 1776 and 1780, but he made a very little dent in the expenses through this method as the cost of maintaining the royal establishments continued very high.

Offline prinzheinelgirl

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Re: Duke Ferdinand of Parma, his wife Maria Amalia,their family
« Reply #121 on: April 14, 2010, 08:58:54 AM »
Some information on Amalia and Ferdinand's relationship and travels in 1771:

In the spring of 1771, the sovereigns went on a trip to Castelnuova de'Terzi, hosted by Duke Frederick Sforza Fogliana. After a few days, the duke and duchess proceeded to Salso, next to Scipione, then back to Sforza-Fogliano's estate, where they had the excitement of hunting with hounds, with the Duchess killing a hare. Afterwhich, they went to Firenzuola, where the bishop welcomed them and said mass. Another stay at Castelnuova afterwhich the sovereigns went back to Parma, very contented with their trip.

In July 1771, the Marquis Durfort (France's representative) and Don Pedro Zevallos (spelling?  representative of Spain) had a secret meeting with Duke Ferdinand regarding Du Tillot, in which Amalia also joined.  The two envoys were there to make a thorough review of Du Tillot's service as believed by the Infante but as later events would unfold, not so -- but to defend and protect the minister. The Infante highly protested the continued service of Du Tillot, saying he would no longer suffer such a minister whose ambition was to dominate, who was greedy, and who had the audacious temerity to degrade his character and that of his wife's, among other things. Amalia also presented her list of grievances against Du Tillot and made several suggestions to remedy their situation. But the two envoys opposed the suggestions, saying that such cannot be made without the 'clearance' of the courts of France and Spain. The excuses made by the two envoys were only pretexts to gain time and save Du Tillot.

(My own loose translation from the book Ristretto di Storia Patria ad Uso de'Piacentini, Volume 5 by Antonio Domenico Rossi)

BTW, on Amalia and Ferdinand's eldest child Caroline, her godparents were Charles III of Spain and Empress Maria Theresa. The travel to Mantua in October 1771 by the duke and the duchess mentioned in reply # 510  was to meet and offer their congratulations to Princess Maria Beatrice d'Este, who was to marry Archduke Ferdinand that month in Milan (both information from same source as above).
« Last Edit: April 14, 2010, 09:28:00 AM by prinzheinelgirl »
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Offline prinzheinelgirl

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Re: Duke Ferdinand of Parma, his wife Maria Amalia,their family
« Reply #122 on: April 15, 2010, 01:24:15 AM »
Some more information on Amalia and Ferdinand, 1768-1777. From the same source as reply #534:

In 1768, Ferdinand went to Mantua to greet and present gifts to his future sister-in-law, Queen Maria Carolina of Naples & Sicily, who was on her way to Naples.

It was said that Du Tillot even had a portrait of Ferdinand - to be sent to Vienna - altered in the hopes of 'stalling' marriage negotiations (as if Maria Theresa cared how the Infante looked like, LOL).   When the papal dispensation for Ferdinand to marry seemed forthcoming with the new pope, he looked for another excuse, saying that there were no suitable living arrangements for the duke and would-be duchess and that he planned to have a new palace built (plans were abandoned later - too expensive).  Maria Theresa was not inclined to further delay the wedding, saying that for her daughter to be married, Maria Amalia would only need a couple of rooms and a bed.

When de Llano was appointed minister of state by Spain, a Council of State was formed, composed of  de Llano and 4 other ministers.  Amalia wished to join the council but was not 'permitted' to do so and deliberately kept away friom it. It was noted, however, that the majority voice of the council was often overruled by the minister del Llano.

More travels around the duchy for the Infante and Infanta in the years 1772-1777, solo or jointly. Once, Ferdinand went on a prolonged trip to various towns in Piacenza and Amalia surprised her husband by joining him there.

When Heinrette d'Este, widow of Antonio Farnese, died in 1777, Ferdinand and Amalia inherited 1,000,000 liras worth of silver, jewelry, furniture and cash from her.

There were some details on the visits of Archdukes Ferdinand and Maximilian (like the places they visited and some of the fetes and where they stayed) but no details (except the date of arrival) of Archduchess Marie Christine..... (I wonder if that indicates Mimi's visit wasn't as warm or nice as the others? Mimi's bad report to Maria Theresa seems to indicate that it wasn't very nice visit....)
« Last Edit: April 15, 2010, 01:30:48 AM by prinzheinelgirl »
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Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Duke Ferdinand of Parma, his wife Maria Amalia,their family
« Reply #123 on: April 15, 2010, 10:38:02 AM »
When did Amalia met up with Caroline ?

Offline prinzheinelgirl

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Re: Duke Ferdinand of Parma, his wife Maria Amalia,their family
« Reply #124 on: April 15, 2010, 07:08:29 PM »
From what I remember, Amalia left Parma in September or early October 1783, with stops in Florence and Rome, for Naples where she presumably spent Christmas and (perhaps) New Year's Day with Maria Carolina.  By January 5th, she was back in Rome (she had supper and played billiards with Gustavus III of Sweden) and obviously at home by Ferdinand's 33rd birthday on Jan. 20th (1784) because exactly 9 months and 1 day later, she gave birth to their 6th child, Antonia Luisa.  ;)
« Last Edit: April 15, 2010, 07:23:50 PM by prinzheinelgirl »
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Offline prinzheinelgirl

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Re: Duke Ferdinand of Parma, his wife Maria Amalia,their family
« Reply #125 on: June 09, 2010, 03:39:42 AM »
Details of an engraving of the Habsburg-Lorraine family in 1773/75. Maria Amalia should be part of the it.....

Triumphal wagon of Maria Theresa and Joseph II 1773/75
A giant triumphal wagon in the Baroque style. Beneath the great imperial crown Maria Theresa and Joseph II are seated. In the lower areas are nine of the children accompanied by antique gods. Probably produced on the occasion of the millennium celebrations for St. Romuald in 1775.
Engraving by Johann Baptiste Klauber, c. 1773/75.
KHM-WGB (Kunsthistorisches Museum Wagenburg, Wien), Inv. Nr. Z 120
« Last Edit: June 09, 2010, 03:44:30 AM by prinzheinelgirl »
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Offline prinzheinelgirl

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Re: Duke Ferdinand of Parma, his wife Maria Amalia,their family
« Reply #126 on: July 13, 2010, 12:33:39 AM »
A description of Maria Amalia's hunting lodge and estate, with the surrounding forest and lakes as well as another property  owned by the Farnese/Bourbon-Parma family nearby, all of which served as one of her residences....now part of a regional park:

http://www.parks.it/parco.boschi.carrega/Epun.php
« Last Edit: July 13, 2010, 12:40:31 AM by prinzheinelgirl »
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Offline CountessKate

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Re: Duke Ferdinand of Parma, his wife Maria Amalia,their family
« Reply #127 on: July 13, 2010, 03:20:59 AM »
There's a zoomable picture of the villa here: http://www.parchi.parma.it/page.asp?IDCategoria=272&IDSezione=1729

It doesn't look in terribly good repair, and I gather from prinzheinelgirl's linked page that the architecture was messed around with by Maria Luisa of Austria when she became Duchess of Parma, but it is interesting to see.  It looks a genuine country villa, not a palacial establishment.

Offline prinzheinelgirl

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Re: Duke Ferdinand of Parma, his wife Maria Amalia,their family
« Reply #128 on: July 13, 2010, 09:20:17 PM »
Thanks!  :)

Indeed, it looks quite a modest villa although I've read that the royal stables were kept at said estate. I wonder what Maria Amalia's  numerous maids (she kept on hiring and hiring them) ever did --- and there doesn't seem to be a lot of room for them at Sala Baganza (where she stayed most often) either...... just one of her caprices, I guess. 
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Offline prinzheinelgirl

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Re: Duke Ferdinand of Parma, his wife Maria Amalia,their family
« Reply #129 on: September 22, 2010, 06:09:52 AM »
Yes, one must be a bit wary even of personal accounts.....

A portrait Maria Amalia, Ferdinand and their children (Carolina & Louis) in late 1773 or early 1774. Sorry it is very small (couldn't find a larger/better version but perhaps someone can); the portrait is said to be at the palace in Innsbruck..... I think it looks very nice (Ferdinand seems to have been slimmed down for said portrait, especially in the face).

« Last Edit: September 22, 2010, 06:23:16 AM by prinzheinelgirl »
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Offline CountessKate

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Re: Duke Ferdinand of Parma, his wife Maria Amalia,their family
« Reply #130 on: September 22, 2010, 11:40:20 AM »
I love the odd mixture of formality and relaxation.   Everyone is in full court outfit, the females in hoops, Ferdinand in his orders, everyone pointing to symbolic objects, yet somehow they're looking rather laid back at the same time, Ferdinand (yes, definitely a slimmer version!) leaning on an adjacent plinth or table, Caroline waving flowers, Maria Amalia glancing a little back to see what her husband is up to in quite a natural way, the baby Louis looking cheery and slightly sleepy.  It's got slightly the look of the Baldrighi portrait of the previous generation of Ferdinand's parents and their children - the formal and informal mixed together, with a sort of busy charm: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Louise_Elisabeth_of_France_Family.jpg

Offline ivanushka

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Re: Duke Ferdinand of Parma, his wife Maria Amalia,their family
« Reply #131 on: September 22, 2010, 11:44:18 AM »
It's a lovely portrait though you do feel sorry for their little daughter having to wear such a formal dress.  The fashions of the age I guess!  They do look like quite a hapy unit and Amalia also looks to be quite a bit taller than her husband!

Offline trentk80

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Re: Duke Ferdinand of Parma, his wife Maria Amalia,their family
« Reply #132 on: September 22, 2010, 12:47:19 PM »
A portrait Maria Amalia, Ferdinand and their children (Carolina & Louis) in late 1773 or early 1774. Sorry it is very small (couldn't find a larger/better version but perhaps someone can); the portrait is said to be at the palace in Innsbruck..... I think it looks very nice (Ferdinand seems to have been slimmed down for said portrait, especially in the face).

There are several portraits of Empress Maria Theresa's children on view in the palace in Innsbruck, including some portraits of Maria Amalia and her family. Do you know who painted this portrait, prinzheinelgirl?
« Last Edit: September 22, 2010, 12:49:23 PM by trentk80 »
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Offline prinzheinelgirl

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Re: Duke Ferdinand of Parma, his wife Maria Amalia,their family
« Reply #133 on: September 22, 2010, 11:27:44 PM »
I love the odd mixture of formality and relaxation.   Everyone is in full court outfit, the females in hoops, Ferdinand in his orders, everyone pointing to symbolic objects, yet somehow they're looking rather laid back at the same time, Ferdinand (yes, definitely a slimmer version!) leaning on an adjacent plinth or table, Caroline waving flowers, Maria Amalia glancing a little back to see what her husband is up to in quite a natural way, the baby Louis looking cheery and slightly sleepy.  It's got slightly the look of the Baldrighi portrait of the previous generation of Ferdinand's parents and their children - the formal and informal mixed together, with a sort of busy charm

It's a lovely portrait though you do feel sorry for their little daughter having to wear such a formal dress.  The fashions of the age I guess! They do look like quite a hapy unit and Amalia also looks to be quite a bit taller than her husband!

That's exactly how I felt upon first seeing this portrait...that it was a very nice mix of both formality and relaxation. I also love how Maria Amalia glanced back at her husband, her (facial) features had such a soft look on!

I suppose Maria Amalia was at least 2-3 inches taller than her husband.  She was, from many accounts, a tall woman for that century while Ferdinand was described as "fat and squat"... I think her slim build also emphasized her height.  Little Caroline had very white skin in said portrait, and she seemingly took after her father, not her mother.

There are several portraits of Empress Maria Theresa's children on view in the palace in Innsbruck, including some portraits of Maria Amalia and her family. Do you know who painted this portrait, prinzheinelgirl?
 

I'm sorry, I don't know. The painter wasn't identified. If I get said detail, I'll let you know. However, as CountessKate mentioned, it quite resembles the style of Baldrighi, who was, of course, the court painter of Parma. I think another painter that the duke and duchess used around that time (early and mid 1770s) was Angelo Guiducci. The pose of Ferdinand also resembles his portrait at Innsbruck (but that one is identified as by Martin Van Mytens)
« Last Edit: September 22, 2010, 11:54:41 PM by prinzheinelgirl »
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Offline CountessKate

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Re: Duke Ferdinand of Parma, his wife Maria Amalia,their family
« Reply #134 on: September 23, 2010, 07:19:14 AM »
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Do you know who painted this portrait, prinzheinelgirl?

In Ilsebill Barta's 'Familienportrats der Habsburger' it is shown in black and white and identified as by our old friend 'Anonym'.  Interestingly, the two busts on either side of the painting (you can just see the plinth on which the one by Maria Amalia's side is positioned) are of Franz Stephan and Maria Theresa, so the painter was presumably making it specifically for the Austrian court, rather than something more general that was subsequently sent to Maria Amalia's mother.