Author Topic: Crown Prince Rudolph--controversies, affairs & his death, Part II  (Read 130965 times)

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Offline Svetabel

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« Last Edit: June 28, 2012, 02:43:53 AM by Svetabel »

Offline Pezzazz

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Re: Crown Prince Rudolph--controversies, affairs & his death, Part II
« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2010, 12:47:27 AM »
Thanks for the new thread Svetabel -- I see the old one ended with 666 posts.   Does that mean we've left evil territory or headed into it?   ;)

Quote from: Imperial_Grounds
However, as I have stated many times, as long as there is no definite answer I do believe in the suicide-theory (that it was out of love and such is out of the question, I think, but not that the suicide happened.

The problem I have with the official position is  that they changed their story too often -- first death was by poisoning, then apoplexy and then heart failure before they settled on suicide.  Then they attempted to withhold any information about the presence of Mary Vetsera and fudged the autopsy results.  The Grand Duke of Tuscany never changed his story -- from the start to the end of his life.  I find it easier to trust someone with an impeccable reputation for honesty who states a direct observation than to believe second-hand hearsay and suicide notes and other documents that can be easily manufactured.  Grand Duke Ferdinand IV always maintained that  Rudolf's brain had glass shards sticking from it, Francis Joseph was in a state of shock the morning after, and that Rudolf's death had not been intentional.  

Not only were they willing to evade the truth before the official finding of suicide, but then many admitted in later letters that the truth was still not known:  (from Judtmann's book)

--The Emperor Francis Joseph to King Leopold II of the Belgians:  "Anything is better than the truth!"

--The Archduke Karl Ludwig in a letter to the Duchess Ludovika of Bavaria:  "The truth is so frightful that no-one can speak about it!"

--The Archduke Ludwig Viktor: "The whole truth is so frightful that one can never confess it."

--Prince Philipp of Coburg to his wife, the Princess Louise:  "...it is terrible, terrible!  I can't tell you anything about it!"

--Count Josef Hoyos to the Archduke Johann Salvator of Tuscany:  "His Highness is dead.  That is all I can say.  Do not ask me for details.  It is too frightful.  I have given the Emperor my word that I shall not say a word about what I have seen."

--Count Henrich Taaffee:  The son of Premier Eduard Count Taaffe said many years later that "the circumstances of the Mayerling affair are far worse than anyone imagines" and then would say no more.

--Hermann Widerhofer to Larisch in My Past:  "Dr. Widerhofer (court physician) was well accustomed to horrible sights in the exercise of his profession, 'but', he said, 'for the first time in my career I felt faint when Loschek threw aside the sheet which covered the basket.  There I saw the body of a woman -- nude except for a fine lawn and lace chemise, which had been pulled up over her head'..............."

--Leopold II of Belgium in a letter to his brother Philipp Count of Flanders:  "It is absolutely important to confirm and maintain the suicide version.  It may seem difficult in the eyes of our Catholic people to see a house with the views of the House of Habsburg insisting on the suicide version.  But suicide and disturbance of mind were the only way of avoiding an unheard-of scandal, the particulars of which I cannot entrust to my letter but which I shall relate to you in full detail.........."

--Dr. Heinrich Baron von Slatin, court secretary in the Lord Marshal's Office.   Slatin did the inventory for Rudolf's estate, and also was the one to write everything that the first and second commissions found at Mayerling:  "As a result, I had repeated contact with his domestic staff -- valets, hunt personnel, servants, etc............In consequence I gained a terrifying picture of the Crown Prince's nerve-racking way of life.  I do not wish to go into detail.........."

These men were all physicians and/or soldiers-hunters.  What could have been so unusual and frightening to them?

So considering the above, this once again brings me to the intrigue of the smashed door to Rudolf's bedroom which was on the ground floor.  According to both Loschek and Hoyos, there was some time that elapsed before they finally decided to smash in the door to find Rudolf and Vetsera dead on the bed in this ground floor bedroom.

However, Dr. Widerhofer, Henrich Taaffe and Grand Duke Ferdinand IV all indicated that Rudolf and Mary Vetsera were lying dead in the upstairs bedroom instead.  So what might this tell-tale smashed door be suggesting???









« Last Edit: October 17, 2010, 12:57:27 AM by Pezzazz »
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Offline Yelena Aleksandrovna

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Re: Crown Prince Rudolph--controversies, affairs & his death, Part II
« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2010, 02:43:35 PM »
Mary Vetsera's portrait
Russia cannot be grasped with the mind, or measured in feet and inches, for she has a special character: In Russia one can only believe. ~Fyodor Tyutchev.

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Re: Crown Prince Rudolph--controversies, affairs & his death, Part II
« Reply #3 on: October 18, 2010, 06:11:10 PM »
Pezzazz, now you frightened me!
I wished some of them had made a hint or something else!


http://www.archive.org/stream/lastdaysofarchdu01gran#page/280/mode/2up


That´s interesting. According to some people from that region, he was "shot through the heart and from behind".
So if I murder myself, it would be very odd to shoot myself from behind.

« Last Edit: October 18, 2010, 06:40:22 PM by Rani »

Offline Pezzazz

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Re: Crown Prince Rudolph--controversies, affairs & his death, Part II
« Reply #4 on: October 18, 2010, 06:43:42 PM »
Rani -- the possibilities frighten me too.  There are quite a few hints about.   

Several books tell about how the Emperor and Empress contacted a psychic, Sister Catherine? if I remember right, about what happened to Rudolf since she had made a prediction about him a couple years before his death that if he didn't change, a great tragedy would occur.  In declining the 2nd request for a reading, Sister Catherine said something like ~~ "The information is there if they really want to know", so I'm guessing she assumed they did not really want to know the truth.
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Rani

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Re: Crown Prince Rudolph--controversies, affairs & his death, Part II
« Reply #5 on: October 18, 2010, 07:05:41 PM »
I think, too, that several people had an interest to destroy the house Habsburg.
And a link to Prussia isnīt false.

Offline Pezzazz

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Re: Crown Prince Rudolph--controversies, affairs & his death, Part II
« Reply #6 on: October 19, 2010, 11:14:08 AM »


Rudolph with some of his dogs.  He tended to accumulate 100s of them.
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Offline aor

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Re: Crown Prince Rudolph--controversies, affairs & his death, Part II
« Reply #7 on: October 19, 2010, 12:14:53 PM »
http://www.archive.org/stream/lastdaysofarchdu01gran#page/280/mode/2up


Who is the author of this book? I see it is 'edited' by Hamilton Grant, but does this mean he is the author?? He spins quite a tale.......

Rani

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Re: Crown Prince Rudolph--controversies, affairs & his death, Part II
« Reply #8 on: October 19, 2010, 01:15:33 PM »
At archive.org there a three books from him. This Rudolf book, one about Napoleon and one about spies.
I didn´t find any other infos about him.

Offline Pezzazz

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Re: Crown Prince Rudolph--controversies, affairs & his death, Part II
« Reply #9 on: October 19, 2010, 01:56:09 PM »
The book is probably by Lieutenant Victor Fritsche, Secretariat Chancellor in Rudolf's establishment.   According to Judtmann, he was bequeathed Rudolf's walking stick and cigar case by Stephanie.  I'm guessing it's him since the 2 other secretaries attached to Crown Prince Rudolf's household were much older than Rudolf, and the anonymous author of this book described himself as several years younger than Rudolf.

This book was written in 1916 before the death of Franz Joseph and in the middle of WWI so the allegations against Wilhelm II were quite bold.   It may not be all spin since towards the end he described how he caught a ride with Dr. Widerhofer to Mayerling the morning of the deaths.  Over 15 years later, Loschek's statement included the remark that "Widerhofer and a secretary" walked into the death room in Mayerling.

From ONB:  15 year old Rudolf had a hard time in getting his tie on straight!




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Offline Pezzazz

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Re: Crown Prince Rudolph--controversies, affairs & his death, Part II
« Reply #10 on: October 19, 2010, 02:34:14 PM »
Crown Prince Rudolf at age 20:  Right click on "view image" to enlarge

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Re: Crown Prince Rudolph--controversies, affairs & his death, Part II
« Reply #11 on: October 19, 2010, 03:29:42 PM »



Offline Carolath Habsburg

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Re: Crown Prince Rudolph--controversies, affairs & his death, Part II
« Reply #12 on: October 19, 2010, 04:04:46 PM »
 

A nice portrait of him



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Offline Pezzazz

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Re: Crown Prince Rudolph--controversies, affairs & his death, Part II
« Reply #13 on: October 19, 2010, 04:09:34 PM »
This must have been one of the last photos taken of Crown Prince Rudolf:



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Offline THERRY

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Re: Crown Prince Rudolph--controversies, affairs & his death, Part II
« Reply #14 on: October 20, 2010, 02:57:36 AM »
To contrast a picture of a young Rudolph

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