Author Topic: Anastasia Claimant - Anna Anderson a.k.a Franziska Schanzkowska  (Read 229075 times)

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Offline Abrams

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My readings of "Anastasia, The Lost Princess" by James Blair Lovell have brought about many questions which I cannot answer.  First of these is that if Anna Anderson was not Anastasia, how can you explain these facts:

Anna Anderson had many physical characteristics similar to that of Anastasia.  For example, the bunions on her feet, the scar on her right shoulder, and the small scar on her left hand, along with her height and such.  Could some of these have just been created by her somehow as part of a hoax?  The bunions seem kind of hard to fake, and they were reported to be so severe that they have to have been present at birth.  Coincidence?

And if this was a hoax, why would Anna Anderdson risk her life and jump from a bridge into a river to simulate a suicide?  Why would she have not done something less risky to make herself "known"?  Could she have actually measured the depth of the water and the height of the bridge to insure her survival?

And if she was a Polish factory worker, where would she have the time or the resources to learn so much about Anastasia Romanov?  Even many small details few people, if any, knew about.  In 1920, the year Anna Anderson jumped, Poland was involved in the Russo-Polish War.  I would imagine factories would be quite busy during this time, making it hard for Anna to learn so much about Anastasia.  

Although I know nothing of the education system in Poland in the early 1900's, I would imagine a person who ended up as a factory worker would not know more than one of two languages.  During her time in the asylum, she reportedly spoke both Russian and English in her sleep.  This suggests that she could fluently speak both of these languages.  Plus she also spoke German when awake (if I remember correctly).

And how did so many people who had seen here before her disappearance confirm that she was Anastasia?  Pierre Gilliard said Anna Anderson was not Anastasia because she could not, or refused to, speak Russian, and because of the religion "crossed herself as" (she "crossed herself" in the manner of a  Roman Catholic rather than in the fashion of  the Russian Orthodox Church, but this could be because her wedding, if it occurred, was held "Roman Catholic style").  Anna Anderson said she did not speak Russian after the execution because it brought back too many memories.  And from her talking in her sleep, it is clear that she did speak Russian.

Lastly, it is reported that Russian Bolsheviks were looking for a missing body for weeks after the execution on July 19, 1918.  Could it be that Anastasia did make it out alive, or did the Bolsheviks somehow lose one of the bodies?  

Although it may seem that I believe Anna Anderson was Anastasia, I really donít know.  The DNA tests say that she was not, but it just seems unlikely that someone could resemble and know so much about a person to this degree without being that person.  Iím trying to keep an open mind about it.  So if anyone can explain some "facts" about Anna Anderson, please do so.  

Offline Forum Admin

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Re: Anastasia Claimant - Anna Anderson a.k.a Franziska Schanzkowska
« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2004, 08:31:32 PM »
The mtDNA is conclusive and without doubt. nothing more needs be "explained" at least as regards Anastasia Nicholaievna. As for whether Anna Anderson was the Polish peasant or not, that is the domain of elsewhere as she was not a Romanov relation, regardless of her true origins.

Offline JM

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Re: Anastasia Claimant - Anna Anderson a.k.a Franziska Schanzkowska
« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2004, 08:44:27 PM »
If it wasn't for the mtDNA I would be inclined to believe Anna is Anastasia. There are so many things about her that can not be explained by science.

It is all circumstantial evidence, which can be denied in favour of science. But, I will still keep my mind open ;D.

Offline Abrams

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Re: Anastasia Claimant - Anna Anderson a.k.a Franziska Schanzkowska
« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2004, 11:11:53 PM »
Yeah, probably just plan set up by a group of people to get money.  My guess is that a few people took this person who had similar features that Anastasia had and took advantage of this.  Maybe setting up the scars and such, teaching her about the family, even other lanuages, all in an atempt to get money.  Well, who knows, I'm probably wrong.  But at least that sort of makes sence..

Offline Lisa

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Re: Anastasia Claimant - Anna Anderson a.k.a Franziska Schanzkowska
« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2004, 04:18:44 AM »
I think that Anna really bandaged to be Anastasia. To be Anastasia was for her a psychological refuge, then she really thought of being her... I must say  that I find the case of Anna really very sad and tragic.I remember her in an interview right before his death. She said "if I am not Anastasia,then who am I ?" One felt really a distress and like a call in his answer to the journalist...

Janet Whitcomb

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Re: Anastasia Claimant - Anna Anderson a.k.a Franziska Schanzkowska
« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2004, 04:02:30 PM »
Sometimes people want to believe things so much that they [almost] become so . . . and certainly the truth to them.  :'(

Still, I'll continue to hold a 1 or 2 % possibility that Anna might be Anastasia . . . the world is full of mysteries that will never be 100% solved.

Offline Ilana

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Re: Anastasia Claimant - Anna Anderson a.k.a Franziska Schanzkowska
« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2004, 01:29:48 PM »
I think that Janet is on to something here.  I believe that Anna Anderson believed in her core that she was Anastasia... she could have taken a lie detector test and passed it.  It reminds me of OJ... by the end of the trial, he was utterly convinced that he didn't do the murders, and I think really believed it... not that anyone else did.  
So long and thanks for all the fish

Offline Janet_W.

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Re: Anastasia Claimant - Anna Anderson a.k.a Franziska Schanzkowska
« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2004, 02:09:57 PM »
Yes, Ilana, it was on the tip of my tongue (or would that be fingertips?!) to mention O.J.  I think some people are in such complete denial that they fall prey to their own lies, subterfuge, and/or disillusions, and end up truly convinced that they are Napoleon, or that they didn't commit such-and-such an action.  The mind and subsconcious work in strange, strange ways!

Offline Adele

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Re: Anastasia Claimant - Anna Anderson a.k.a Franziska Schanzkowska
« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2004, 03:56:23 PM »
Can there ever be a chance that DNA testing is contaminated somehow?  Is the test 100% certain?

The reason I'm asking is (1)  I'm not a scientist and (2) I know in the case of carbon testing, there can be, indeed, contamination.

I'm thinking, right now, of the Shroud of Turin; I was watching a PBS special on it the other evening and was appalled that the people who were repairing the shroud were not wearing gloves.  It was shocking to me.  If anyone even breathes on the part they use for carbon testing, it can render the test void (or inconclusive).  They didn't even mention this in the PBS Special, tho.

I once saw the gentleman being interviewed on TV---the man who invented Carbon testing---and he was listing all the ways the test can go wrong.   So, I am thinking perhaps the same is with DNA testing?

But maybe there's a scientist out there who can contribute to this discussion?

--Adele

Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: Anastasia Claimant - Anna Anderson a.k.a Franziska Schanzkowska
« Reply #9 on: April 11, 2004, 11:38:21 AM »
Adele: The only scientist who posts here appears to have his own set of biases.

The preponderance of evidence indicates that the murders indeed took place when they were said to and that in the process of trying to dispose of the evidence,  that two bodies disappeared.

The first test of mt DNA in the maternal line of Victoria Regina took place in the mid-1990's. The very much alive Princess Katherine of Yugoslavia (b.1959) had her blood drawn and the sample was tested at Brown University. The scientist who posts here will try to tell you that because no one has published the results of her mtDNA testing, that the results of her privately funded test are invalid. You know, I never realized that publishing test results that powerful! Seriously, no scientist that I know questions these results.

Several months after the first test, a blood sample was taken from Prince Philip, who is, as we know, also very much alive. His and Katherine's mtDNA exactly matched, and their mtDNA, matches the mtDNA of the purported remains of Alexandra and her three daughters from the "grave" in the Koptyaki Forest.

Recently some scientists have question the validity of some of these tests. If you want to read more about this subject, you may wish to read "Fate of the Romanovs: by King and Wilson and "The Romanovs: The Final Chapter" by Massie.

Happy Easter

RobMoshein

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Re: Anastasia Claimant - Anna Anderson a.k.a Franziska Schanzkowska
« Reply #10 on: April 11, 2004, 11:49:58 AM »
Adele,
Some while back, I contacted Dr. Terry Melton who performed the Anna Anderson mtDNA analysis. I asked her specifically and directly if she felt that there were any flaws in their analysis or possiblity of contamination which might have impacted their results.  Dr. Melton remains today one of the world's leading DNA analysts and her testimony is accepted as accurate by the US and UK court systems.  Her answer was an unequivocal assertion that proper protocols were followed, there was no possible contamination of specimens, and their mtDNA analysis was exact. Nothing has changed in their method of performing this work except that which used to be done by hand is now done by machine. She said that her results were 100% accurate and without doubt remain so today: Anna Anderson was in no way related to Alexandra Feodrovna.

Offline Namarolf

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Re: Anastasia Claimant - Anna Anderson a.k.a Franziska Schanzkowska
« Reply #11 on: April 11, 2004, 12:04:27 PM »
Even if there were grounds to believe some tests concerning the "royals" may have been "contaminated", I have heard Anderson's DNA matches that of some people in the Schanzkowski family, isn't so?

Offline Abrams

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Re: Anastasia Claimant - Anna Anderson a.k.a Franziska Schanzkowska
« Reply #12 on: April 11, 2004, 11:12:24 PM »
Does the DNA of Anna Anderson confirm that she was Franziska Schanzkowski?

Offline David_Newell

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Re: Anastasia Claimant - Anna Anderson a.k.a Franziska Schanzkowska
« Reply #13 on: April 12, 2004, 03:27:20 AM »
I believe so. But I too have always wondered about her knowledge. I think she had what used to be called animal cunning. I do not mean this unkindly, but I think she could make people believe she knew more than she really did. She was able to win people over and so many of those who saw her really wanted to believe that she was Anastasia Nicolievna. So they may have been swept along by it all. I think she really did believe it herself. A poor sad lady, who certainly suffered for it.

David Newell, London

Offline Namarolf

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Re: Anastasia Claimant - Anna Anderson a.k.a Franziska Schanzkowska
« Reply #14 on: April 12, 2004, 07:39:43 PM »
Well, she managed to live in a fairly comfortable style for 62 years without working, and also to be treated as "royalty" by many -including people sending her money orders she never cashed. I guess many people around the world would beg for half what she received. May be her last years were very sad, but mostly due to the way she treated people.