Author Topic: Anastasia Claimant - Anna Anderson a.k.a Franziska Schanzkowska  (Read 230404 times)

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Offline AGRBear

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Re: Anastasia Claimant - Anna Anderson a.k.a Franziska Schanzkowska
« Reply #255 on: February 19, 2005, 09:55:00 AM »
The mtDNA is through the maternal line not the line of the father's.  So,  even if there was incest,  it doesn't help us understand how Karl Maucher's grandmother Gertrude and FS ended up with the same mtDNA as AA.

And,  you're right,  I do throw out theories of all kinds so I'd be the last one to stiffle someone else's theory.

As for Penny's posts,  I never saw them except for the bites and pieces on various posts.  So,  I can't comment anything else other than what I've posted above.

Besides,   I'm still stuck on Annie's first question about the trip from Ekaterinburg to Bucharest.  If AA was in Ekaterinburg in July of 1918 could she have traveled this distance by Dec. 8th which is the date given for the birth of little Alexander?

Oh, and would AA been using the O.S. or the N.S. calendar which changes the date some 12 days?

AGRBear

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Offline Denise

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Re: Anastasia Claimant - Anna Anderson a.k.a Franziska Schanzkowska
« Reply #256 on: February 19, 2005, 09:58:34 AM »
Quote

Besides,   I'm still stuck on Annie's first question about the trip from Ekaterinburg to Bucharest.  If AA was in Ekaterinburg in July of 1918 could she have traveled this distance by Dec. 8th which is the date given for the birth of little Alexander?


AGRBear



I just read in Kurth's book that the date of Dec 8, 1918 for the birth of the baby was invented by Baron von Kleist.  AA herself says the child was born in 1919.  So the date of the birth does not need to figure into our equation for the length of the trip.  

And Bear, glad to see you are back!  :D

Offline AGRBear

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Re: Anastasia Claimant - Anna Anderson a.k.a Franziska Schanzkowska
« Reply #257 on: February 19, 2005, 10:13:11 AM »
Quote

I just read in Kurth's book that the date of Dec 8, 1918 for the birth of the baby was invented by Baron von Kleist.  AA herself says the child was born in 1919.  So the date of the birth does not need to figure into our equation for the length of the trip.  

And Bear, glad to see you are back!  :D


I'm glad it was von Kleist's invention because I was having a hard time with the date of 8 Dec..  So,  what was the reason for von Kleist to make up such a story?

And thanks for the niece words, because it is good to be back  ;D.

AGRBear
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

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Offline Denise

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Re: Anastasia Claimant - Anna Anderson a.k.a Franziska Schanzkowska
« Reply #258 on: February 19, 2005, 10:54:08 AM »
Here is the info from page 34 in PK's "riddle":

Zinaida Tolstoy, nursing Anastasia in the summer of 1922, was the first to hear "The Story" or parts of it.  She reported the details as she received them to Baron von Kleist, who in turn drew up a number of protocols and invented for Anastasia a flowing, first person narrative that bore no resemblance to her actual speech but did introduce, in a guarded way, "a soldierwho had rescued [her]" from the general slaughter at Ekaterinburg.  This soldier, destined to cast a long shadowacross Anastasia's life, gave his name as Alexander Tschaikovsk.  With Tschaikovsky and his family--"his mother, Maria, his sister, Veronica, and his brother, Serge"--Anastasia traveled out of Russia to Bucharest.  There she remained until the beginning of 1920.  During the Rumanian sojourn--to be precise, on "December 5, 1918" she gave birth to Tschaikovsky's child, a boy, whom she called Alexis after her brother.  Shortly after that she was married to Tschaikovsky in a Catholic church in Bucharest.  No rings were exchanged and no papers signed.  In Bucharest the family had taken up residence with a "gardener" described as a relative of Alexander Tschaikovsky's mother.  Tschaikovsky was shot and killed on the streets of Bucharest at the end of 1919.  His young widow, leaving her son behind, then came "alone" to Berlin to seek out her mother's relations.  She was "at liberty for less than a week" before she fell--or had she been pushed?--into the Landwehr Canal.

Such was the fantastic gist of "The Story" as Baron von Kleist told it.  Anastasia's indignation knew no limit when she heard about the Baron's "lies."  Alexis! she exclaimed.  She had never called her child Alexis: "The boy is called like his father, Alexander."  And where had Baron von Kleist come up with the date of the child's birth?  Anastasia had no idea when the boy was born.  He would be "almost three" now, in 1922, that was all she knew. What did it matter?  She would never be able to recognize the child in any case.

Offline Annie

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Re: Anastasia Claimant - Anna Anderson a.k.a Franziska Schanzkowska
« Reply #259 on: February 19, 2005, 05:07:12 PM »
Jolie- I agree!

bear- welcome back! Yes I would love to do more exploring on my journey ideas!

Denise- thanks for the info!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Annie »

Offline chintz22

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Re: Anastasia Claimant - Anna Anderson a.k.a Franziska Schanzkowska
« Reply #260 on: February 19, 2005, 06:19:35 PM »
Hi All,

AGRBear, that's a good point about whether the calendar used is OS or NS.  I'm interested in the trip itself as well.  

Best,

Sarah

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Re: Anastasia Claimant - Anna Anderson a.k.a Franziska Schanzkowska
« Reply #261 on: February 19, 2005, 08:02:12 PM »
Personally I don't think Penny was throwing tantrums, I think there are others on this thread who are not interested in a discussion, just their own opinion, and do what they can to disrupt the flow of ideas, and prove that in the end they are right, & sow discourse wherever possible.

This thread was about WHO could she possibly be if she was not FS.

I thought the entire matter of incest was insulting & degrading to any family, and to one who wants to stay as private as the Schanzkowska's obviously do, all they would have to do is get wind of this idea.  Also having to deal with a similar situation in genealogy, if you want to people to cooperate with you & your research the one thing not to do is to piss them off publicly, with inflammatory theories such as that.

Bear I for one am interested in hearing more about your theories.  

Offline Annie

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Re: Anastasia Claimant - Anna Anderson a.k.a Franziska Schanzkowska
« Reply #262 on: February 19, 2005, 10:41:38 PM »
Quote
.

This thread was about WHO could she possibly be if she was not FS.


  


No, that was "so who WAS she, then?" this is "Anna Anderson's story" about whether or not her story was realistic.

Offline Helen_Azar

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Re: Anastasia Claimant - Anna Anderson a.k.a Franziska Schanzkowska
« Reply #263 on: February 19, 2005, 10:58:06 PM »
It seems that all threads about AA, no matter how different they start out, somehow end up as the same discussion  ;D

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Re: Anastasia Claimant - Anna Anderson a.k.a Franziska Schanzkowska
« Reply #264 on: February 19, 2005, 11:09:35 PM »
Annie, PLEASE put me on ignore, I have no intention in getting into an argument over semantics with you or anything else.


Thanks!! :-X

Offline AGRBear

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Re: Anastasia Claimant - Anna Anderson a.k.a Franziska Schanzkowska
« Reply #265 on: February 20, 2005, 10:55:00 AM »
Back to the topic, please.

Does anyone have any thoughts about AA having taken the route to the south?

Would there have been any major reasons which would have prevented this journey?

Anyone know where we can discover the weather stats for July to Dec 1918 for this southern route?

AGRBear
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Offline stepan

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Re: Anastasia Claimant - Anna Anderson a.k.a Franziska Schanzkowska
« Reply #266 on: February 20, 2005, 03:34:19 PM »
A couple of years after AA appeared her supposed brother in law Sergei was looking for her. He went to Dallforf, Clara Peutert,The Schwabes but didenīt find her. If I remember correctly AA was staying with Inspector Grunberg at the time. So this man "Sergei" diden`t find her but conviniently disappeared never to be heard of again. So the story goes. Anyway this man left a letter to AA and said that her child was in an orphanage in Galath in Rumania. This supposed letter was never found either. I donīt believe much of this story. Research was being done in Rumania in the 20īs but they never found any trace of the Tchaikovskis or of a child. I personally think it was all made up. And if she was in Rumania why on earth didenīt she go to her close relative Queen Marie?  As GD Olga Alexandrovna said: It doesenīt make any sense! Queen Marie would have helped and understood. She was an openminded person and nothing was strange to her.

Offline Annie

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Re: Anastasia Claimant - Anna Anderson a.k.a Franziska Schanzkowska
« Reply #267 on: February 20, 2005, 04:27:14 PM »
Quote
A couple of years after AA appeared her supposed brother in law Sergei was looking for her. He went to Dallforf, Clara Peutert,The Schwabes but didenīt find her. If I remember correctly AA was staying with Inspector Grunberg at the time. So this man "Sergei" diden`t find her but conviniently disappeared never to be heard of again. So the story goes.


Interesting, thanks for posting. Do you know the source of this story?


Quote
Anyway this man left a letter to AA and said that her child was in an orphanage in Galath in Rumania. This supposed letter was never found either. I donīt believe much of this story. Research was being done in Rumania in the 20īs but they never found any trace of the Tchaikovskis or of a child. I personally think it was all made up. And if she was in Rumania why on earth didenīt she go to her close relative Queen Marie?  As GD Olga Alexandrovna said: It doesenīt make any sense! Queen Marie would have helped and understood. She was an openminded person and nothing was strange to her.


I agree with you, and Olga A.!

Another thing on this is, if they were real, wouldn't they have tried harder to find her? They knew she was Anastasia and what a gold mine for them! I know the husband was allegedly killed in Romania, but the brother or the rest of the family could have found her. It's also strange they never surfaced during the long and well publicized trial. All these factors lead me to believe even more none of them ever existed and AA was not AN.

I guess the fate of the child will always remain a mystery.




Offline stepan

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Re: Anastasia Claimant - Anna Anderson a.k.a Franziska Schanzkowska
« Reply #268 on: February 21, 2005, 08:45:36 AM »
The source for this story about her supposed brother in law seemed to come from Clara Peuthert.   Peter Kurth wrote about it among others. But this man left no trace but "disappeared" as he had done in Febuary 1920. That is according to AA! This man could have been anybody so nothing is proved.

Offline AGRBear

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Re: Anastasia Claimant - Anna Anderson a.k.a Franziska Schanzkowska
« Reply #269 on: February 21, 2005, 10:26:17 PM »
Quote
A couple of years after AA appeared her supposed brother in law Sergei was looking for her. He went to Dallforf, Clara Peutert,The Schwabes but didenīt find her. If I remember correctly AA was staying with Inspector Grunberg at the time. So this man "Sergei" diden`t find her but conviniently disappeared never to be heard of again. So the story goes. Anyway this man left a letter to AA and said that her child was in an orphanage in Galath in Rumania. This supposed letter was never found either. I donīt believe much of this story. Research was being done in Rumania in the 20īs but they never found any trace of the Tchaikovskis or of a child. I personally think it was all made up. And if she was in Rumania why on earth didenīt she go to her close relative Queen Marie?  As GD Olga Alexandrovna said: It doesenīt make any sense! Queen Marie would have helped and understood. She was an openminded person and nothing was strange to her.


I'm not sure to which family you are referring when you said: >>AA appeared her supposed brother in law Sergei was looking for her<<  Was this a  Alexander Tschaiksky's sister's husband?

Where was Queen Marie in 1919?   Because this is a good question as to why AA hadn't gone to see her.

Stephan also asked:  <<...this man left a letter to AA and said that her child was in an orphanage in Galath in Rumania<<.  Do you have  a source?

I do not know who was looking for the family and claimed no evidence was found.  I've seen this statement on other threads but no source.

AGRBear
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152