Author Topic: Anastasia Claimant - Anna Anderson a.k.a Franziska Schanzkowska  (Read 229538 times)

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Offline Helen_Azar

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Re: Anastasia Claimant - Anna Anderson a.k.a Franziska Schanzkowska
« Reply #285 on: February 22, 2005, 12:49:54 PM »
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Inspector Franz Gruenberg was the Berlin Police Commissioner.  This information appears in a footnote attached to page 54 of Peter's book.  You really should read it for the basics of the case.


Thanks. I will.

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German.  "Geb." is shorthand for geboren.


Do you know why it said "geb 1904", wasn't Anastasia born in 1901?



Offline AGRBear

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Re: Anastasia Claimant - Anna Anderson a.k.a Franziska Schanzkowska
« Reply #286 on: February 22, 2005, 12:53:27 PM »
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Inspector Franz Gruenberg was the Berlin Police Commissioner.  This information appears in a footnote attached to page 54 of Peter's book.  You really should read it for the basics of the case.


Thanks.  

Glad to see you're still here  :)

AGRBear

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Offline Penny_Wilson

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Re: Anastasia Claimant - Anna Anderson a.k.a Franziska Schanzkowska
« Reply #287 on: February 22, 2005, 12:53:37 PM »
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The source is Peter Kurth.  It states that a man arrived at Nicholas von Schwabes having arrived at Clara's after being directed there by the Dalldorf Asylum.  On seeing a picture of AA he burst into tears and said he knew that lady and had travelled with her to Berlin.  On the back of the photo he scribbled some words which read (and I'm paraphrasing here as I don't carry the book around with me) something like Anastasia Nicolaevna ... Serge Ivanov(?) .... geb Petersburg 1904 - something like that (geb meaning born)  I've cross matched this with the list of guards given by Penny and Greg and there aren't any Ivanov's mentioned.  The photo with the inscription now forms part of hte Edward Fallows papers so it is real.  He also left a letter which von Schwabe (when quizzed by AA) said he had "lost" and which sent AA into a frenzy.


Yup, this is it.  See what happens when you read the evidence?  No misinformation.  Anyway, a young man showed up at Clara's apartment -- sent there by information obtained in the emigre community, and believing that this was where "Anastasia" was staying.  He saw a photo of Fraulein U, recognized her as the young woman he had brought to Berlin from Roumania, broke into tears, and wrote on the back of the photo the following (some of the words are illegible): " Anastasia Nicolaievna... Alexandereva... Ivan... Alexev... Shorov... geb. Pittersburg."  A photo of this inscription appears in Frau von Rathlef's book.  Clara took him to von Schwabe's apartment, where he told them that he had known Fraulein U and her husband in Bucharest, but that they were not actually married; he was the one who had brought her to Berlin; he had done some time in prison in Roumania because of this; he did NOT claim to be Serge Tschaikovsky.  This was Clara's guess -- which was not a bad one as Fraulein U said she had traveled to Berlin in the company of her "late husband's brother."  She did initially say that she had come to Berlin "alone."  She was trying to protect the Tschaikovskys because "If they were not kind to me, I would not be here now."

It appears that this "Serge" may have died in Latvia in 1929.
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Offline Penny_Wilson

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Re: Anastasia Claimant - Anna Anderson a.k.a Franziska Schanzkowska
« Reply #288 on: February 22, 2005, 12:54:22 PM »
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Thanks.  

Glad to see you're still here  :)

AGRBear




Someone's got to keep us on the straight-and-narrow with the facts.  ;D
"Don't do anything by half. If you love someone, love them with all your soul. When you go to work, work your ass off. When you hate someone, hate them until it hurts."  -- A Piece of Good Advice

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Offline Penny_Wilson

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Re: Anastasia Claimant - Anna Anderson a.k.a Franziska Schanzkowska
« Reply #289 on: February 22, 2005, 12:55:54 PM »
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Do you know why it said "geb 1904", wasn't Anastasia born in 1901?



Sian said she was not working from the book, but rather from memory.  I have von Rathlef's book in front of me, and there is no date on Serge's inscription.
"Don't do anything by half. If you love someone, love them with all your soul. When you go to work, work your ass off. When you hate someone, hate them until it hurts."  -- A Piece of Good Advice

Sometimes the truth hurts. And sometimes it feels real good. -- Henry Rollins

Offline Helen_Azar

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Re: Anastasia Claimant - Anna Anderson a.k.a Franziska Schanzkowska
« Reply #290 on: February 22, 2005, 01:01:43 PM »
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 I have von Rathlef's book in front of me, and there is no date on Serge's inscription.


Did it just say "geb."? Which wouldn't make much sense without a date. Or was there something else there?

Offline Denise

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Re: Anastasia Claimant - Anna Anderson a.k.a Franziska Schanzkowska
« Reply #291 on: February 22, 2005, 01:04:36 PM »
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Did it just say "geb."? Which wouldn't make much sense without a date. Or was there something else there?


As Penny said, part of the inscription is illegible.  Pehaps the pertinent info that went with "geb" was not readable...

Offline Helen_Azar

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Re: Anastasia Claimant - Anna Anderson a.k.a Franziska Schanzkowska
« Reply #292 on: February 22, 2005, 01:06:47 PM »
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As Penny said, part of the inscription is illegible.  Pehaps the pertinent info that went with "geb" was not readable...


Oh ok, sorry I missed that part. Thanks.

Offline Penny_Wilson

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Re: Anastasia Claimant - Anna Anderson a.k.a Franziska Schanzkowska
« Reply #293 on: February 22, 2005, 01:24:28 PM »
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Did it just say "geb."? Which wouldn't make much sense without a date. Or was there something else there?


Again.  Here's what the legible part of the inscription says (the elipses indicate bits that can't be read): Anastasia Nicolaievna... Alexandereva... Ivan... Alexev... Shorov... geb. Pittersburg.

So "geb. Pittersburg" simply means "born in [St.] Petersburg."
"Don't do anything by half. If you love someone, love them with all your soul. When you go to work, work your ass off. When you hate someone, hate them until it hurts."  -- A Piece of Good Advice

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Offline AGRBear

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Re: Anastasia Claimant - Anna Anderson a.k.a Franziska Schanzkowska
« Reply #294 on: February 22, 2005, 02:20:59 PM »

Quote

Again.  Here's what the legible part of the inscription says (the elipses indicate bits that can't be read): Anastasia Nicolaievna... Alexandereva... Ivan... Alexev... Shorov... geb. Pittersburg.

So "geb. Pittersburg" simply means "born in [St.] Petersburg."


When working on my GR [German-Russian] genealogy which is in German even though my family members were born in Russia, the word "geb" is used and is the shorten version of geboren which in English means born.

Since he spelled Peterburg "Pittersburg",  Serge's, or whomever he was,  was  my kinda speller  ::) .

AGRBear
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

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Offline Olga

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Re: Anastasia Claimant - Anna Anderson a.k.a Franziska Schanzkowska
« Reply #295 on: February 23, 2005, 08:19:48 AM »
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Someone's got to keep us on the straight-and-narrow with the facts.  ;D


Her Royal Highness has returned to keep us plebs looking here we should be.

Offline Arleen

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Re: Anastasia Claimant - Anna Anderson a.k.a Franziska Schanzkowska
« Reply #296 on: February 23, 2005, 08:38:13 AM »
Why do you guys have to always get so PERSONAL!  It spoils things for the other thousand of us who read these threads......
Arleen

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Re: Anastasia Claimant - Anna Anderson a.k.a Franziska Schanzkowska
« Reply #297 on: February 23, 2005, 09:53:55 AM »
Darth,
Uncalled for comment. No one said anything about you, so there was no reason to attack Penny. Penny was trying to make a joke, even I could see that. If this were basketball, I'd call a technical foul. (google it if you don't understand).
FA

Offline AGRBear

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Re: Anastasia Claimant - Anna Anderson a.k.a Franziska Schanzkowska
« Reply #298 on: February 23, 2005, 05:56:53 PM »
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Yup, this is it.  See what happens when you read the evidence?  No misinformation.  Anyway, a young man showed up at Clara's apartment -- sent there by information obtained in the emigre community, and believing that this was where "Anastasia" was staying.  He saw a photo of Fraulein U, recognized her as the young woman he had brought to Berlin from Roumania, broke into tears, and wrote on the back of the photo the following (some of the words are illegible): " Anastasia Nicolaievna... Alexandereva... Ivan... Alexev... Shorov... geb. Pittersburg."  A photo of this inscription appears in Frau von Rathlef's book.  Clara took him to von Schwabe's apartment, where he told them that he had known Fraulein U and her husband in Bucharest, but that they were not actually married; he was the one who had brought her to Berlin; he had done some time in prison in Roumania because of this; he did NOT claim to be Serge Tschaikovsky.  This was Clara's guess -- which was not a bad one as Fraulein U said she had traveled to Berlin in the company of her "late husband's brother."  She did initially say that she had come to Berlin "alone."  She was trying to protect the Tschaikovskys because "If they were not kind to me, I would not be here now."

It appears that this "Serge" may have died in Latvia in 1929.


Could the Tschaikosvky's have been  from Latvian???  If so, I wonder how it was spelled in Latvia.

Yurovsky was said to have had brought in his own "Letts" [Latvians].  Penny do you have the names of the Letts?

If not Reds then they could have been part of the Whites who were moving into Ekaterinburg under Gajda in July of 1918.  Families often traveled with their soldiers relatives rather than be left behind....

AGRBear
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Offline Penny_Wilson

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Re: Anastasia Claimant - Anna Anderson a.k.a Franziska Schanzkowska
« Reply #299 on: February 23, 2005, 07:10:56 PM »
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Could the Tschaikosvky's have been  from Latvian???  If so, I wonder how it was spelled in Latvia.

Yurovsky was said to have had brought in his own "Letts" [Latvians].  Penny do you have the names of the Letts?

If not Reds then they could have been part of the Whites who were moving into Ekaterinburg under Gajda in July of 1918.  Families often traveled with their soldiers relatives rather than be left behind....

AGRBear


Yurovsky's Letts were a mixed bag of nationalities -- Lacher was from Austria, Verhas from Hungary, and Netrebin from Russia itself.  The only two actual Baltic Letts in the group were Adolph Lepa -- who refused to shoot the family, but who later accompanied the truck laden with bodies into the forest -- quite an interesting man from this point of view.

The other Baltic Lett was a man known only as "Soames."  Sometimes it appears as "Zomes."  I always thought that Soames was an English name -- and there was one passing mention by someone in Tobolsk -- I can't remember where I read this, but perhaps Greg will, though it was only one brief sentence -- that there was an Englishman among the Emperor's guards.   Now this person was speaking of the Tobolsk guard, and we were unable to find any "English" sort of name among that guards' list.  So either the speaker was mistaken, or it was a rumor that he was repeating without context, or he meant some other group of guards.  Given the connection between Lysma and England, I have wondered from time to time if this "Soames" wasn't the person meant.  But this is all very nebulous until I can locate the book I read the "Englishman" quote in...
"Don't do anything by half. If you love someone, love them with all your soul. When you go to work, work your ass off. When you hate someone, hate them until it hurts."  -- A Piece of Good Advice

Sometimes the truth hurts. And sometimes it feels real good. -- Henry Rollins