Author Topic: Help to identify an Imperial Eagle Crest on porcelain please  (Read 4849 times)

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Help to identify an Imperial Eagle Crest on porcelain please
« on: December 16, 2010, 02:28:41 PM »
Just acquired a new piece for the collection, a sauce boat, made by the Kiev Porcelain Factory, stamped "1850 October" on the bottom. I know this is the old Imperial Eagle, but not sure why is on the piece. Regimental?? any help appreciated.



Offline Mike

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Re: Help to identify an Imperial Eagle Crest on porcelain please
« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2010, 03:20:23 PM »
Please show the bottom. Are you sure it's intended for sauce? Seems a wash utensil to me.

aleksandr pavlovich

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Re: Help to identify an Imperial Eagle Crest on porcelain please
« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2010, 05:00:53 PM »
Re Original Post on the ceramic item:  Interesting piece, Rob.  I agree that it is a sauce/gravy "boat" of appropriate age, which is possibly/probably missing a separate oval "underplate." While the blue decoration appears to be hand-painted, the eagle (older-style, wings down) is, IMO, transfer-printed.  Question:  There appears to be a matching blue ring on the handle.  It also looks as if the handle has moulded decoration?  Unfortunately, I am not familiar with the "Kiev Porcelain Factory." (Apparently they are still around in a modern incarnation, as per "Google"?)  Do we know if they not only made "porcelain" per se, but produced glazed thin "earthenware" table products as well?   Regards,  AP.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2010, 05:12:30 PM by aleksandr pavlovich »

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Re: Help to identify an Imperial Eagle Crest on porcelain please
« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2010, 06:59:48 PM »
Yes, the eagle is transfer printed. There is molded decoration on the handle hand painted in blue.  It is identical in form to a sauce boat I have from the Winter Palace/Coronation service.  The mark is incised in the bottom Mike, not printed. It says exactly

94 (in a square)
KIEBь
1850г
Октября.  (in handwritten script)

Sorry the soft sign is in the same size on the piece I couldn't get them to match here....


aleksandr pavlovich

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Re: Help to identify an Imperial Eagle Crest on porcelain please
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2010, 06:57:38 AM »
Hello, Rob!  A bit of a follow-up on the "sauce boat."  I have had a few moments to look through some reference volumes here, including "At The Tsar's Table, Russian Imperial Porcelain Porcelain from the Raymond F. Piper Collection."  Though I understand that the piece in question is not of "Imperial Quality," I was researching any illustrations of the old (wings-down) arms.  I found none in this (limited) volume on porcelain. (I certainly understand that the style of arms did exist at the time mentioned, since I have examples on coins of the era.)  Kovel's book of marks from 1850 does not list the Kiev Factory.  I am certain though that your example is authentic and of the period.  Your reference to the potential of being a regimental piece is interesting, but IMO it would need to have more definitive decoration as to the specific regiment. My best guess is that it is somewhere between being from a service that was "everyday" for some (presently unknown) government functionary/office to a commercial "souvenir" piece, a la the early Chinese exports of porcelain for the American market decorated with the heraldric American Eagle only, and intended for whomever could afford to buy an example.  Good luck!  Regards,  AP.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2010, 07:02:55 AM by aleksandr pavlovich »

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Re: Help to identify an Imperial Eagle Crest on porcelain please
« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2010, 09:40:27 AM »
My question is more about the Imperial Eagle is on the piece.  I have all the info I need on the Kiev Factory, actually.  I have "Stariye Russkiye Fayance" or "Old Russian Faience"  by E. Bubnova,"Iskusstovo" Moscow 1973. 

The factory is properly the "Kiev-Mezhegorsky" Factory.  At the time of this piece, 1850, the Kiev Factory and the Imperial Porcelain Factory were under the same Director and shared the materials and artists of the IPF with the Kiev Factory.  According to the book, the piece was indeed made in October 1850 as precise dating went into effect in the 1840s.

aleksandr pavlovich

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Re: Help to identify an Imperial Eagle Crest on porcelain please
« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2010, 11:24:49 AM »
Thanks for the quick response, Rob.  The title of the reference book that you have (which I do not), apparently clears up one of my questions:  The sheen and granular-appearing "body" of the boat (to me) does not have the texture/consistency/appearance of true porcelain.  Thus the reference book refers (no pun intended!) to "faience," which is glazed earthenware and not true porcelain.  Therefore I surmise (hopefully correctly) that the "boat" is of faience.  Regardless, the eagle DOES pose an interesting mystery as to the original destination/intent of this item, and to why it bears the ("abbreviated") insignia. Should I find a plausible explanation, I'll be certain to post!  Regards,  AP.