Author Topic: How did AA/FS pull off the masquerade of "Anastasia"?  (Read 47810 times)

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Offline TimM

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Re: How did AA/FS pull off the masquerade of "Anastasia"?
« Reply #60 on: August 25, 2012, 10:53:23 AM »
The words of Fox Mulder (from the X-Files) comes to mind here:

"I want to believe."
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Vanya Ivanova

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Re: How did AA/FS pull off the masquerade of "Anastasia"?
« Reply #61 on: August 26, 2012, 09:29:54 AM »
I first came across AA in an 'Unsolved Mysteries' book for children when I was about 11 yrs old myself, I can honestly say that when I read that AA couldn't (or supposedly wouldn't) speak Russian I dismissed her claim immediately and was baffled that despite this really glaring factor, people could still believe she was a Russian princess despite the fact that she didn't understand and could not speak Russian- amazing!

I think there is potentially a lot of mileage in the theory that she was schooled and fed information via soviet agents to deliberately create divsions in the Russian emigre community and surviving Romanovs etc, as AA's story really did just that much more than any other. Peter Kurth cited GD Andrew Vladimirovitch as a possible double agent in this regard. AA certainly knew very intimate and surprising details about the IF that as an uneducated Polish peasant its still difficult to account for.

Part of me thinks fair play to her as she was from a very deprived background and got to be feted by New York society, and European Royalty etc which must have been really heady stuff for a factory worker from a peasant background in 1920's Poland. However the pain and distress she must have caused to the likes of GD Olga Alexandrovna, the Dowager Empress and Gilliard etc would have been very real and is quite unforgivable really. GD Olga A certainly took it as 'par for the course' but it still must have hurt to get her hopes up and realise it was just another adventurer and not her lost niece.


Offline Forum Admin

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Re: How did AA/FS pull off the masquerade of "Anastasia"?
« Reply #62 on: August 26, 2012, 09:32:35 AM »
Greg King's book is really the definitive work on this exact topic.  It should be required reading for anyone interested!

Offline Kalafrana

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Re: How did AA/FS pull off the masquerade of "Anastasia"?
« Reply #63 on: August 26, 2012, 09:55:21 AM »
I too first heard about Anna Anderson when I was about 11 (my mother talked about 'the Anastasia woman in America' over the ironing - I learned a whole lot from my mother over the ironing, including the Pugachev Rebellion!). I began as a sceptic on the basis that it seemed to me obvious that the execution squad would have made very sure that everyone was dead. when I was about 15 I came upon a copy of I, Anastasia and the inherently unlikely story of her 'escape' only made me even more of a sceptic.

I've never really felt sorry for her. Plenty of people have rotten starts in life and don't become confidence tricksters, which is what, effectively, she was. She may have reached a point where she genuinely did believe she was Anastasia, however. The people I do feel sorry for are Olga A and co., who had their hopes raised and then dashed, as Vanya says.

I'm not convinced by suggestions of Soviet involvement either. They might have found all this useful once it had got going, but there were other mechanisms at work.

Ann

Offline TimM

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Re: How did AA/FS pull off the masquerade of "Anastasia"?
« Reply #64 on: August 26, 2012, 05:53:42 PM »
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She may have reached a point where she genuinely did believe she was Anastasia, however

I think she did, towards the end of her life.  She had played the part for more than sixty years by then.
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Offline Greg_King

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Re: How did AA/FS pull off the masquerade of "Anastasia"?
« Reply #65 on: August 26, 2012, 11:44:28 PM »
hey guys-it should be Greg King and Penny Wilson's book!

Offline Jen_94

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Re: How did AA/FS pull off the masquerade of "Anastasia"?
« Reply #66 on: August 27, 2012, 04:35:55 AM »
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She may have reached a point where she genuinely did believe she was Anastasia, however

I think she did, towards the end of her life.  She had played the part for more than sixty years by then.

Exactly. I think this too.

Greg and Penny's book I am currently reading and it is definitely a good resource for those who want to learn more on this subject.

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Re: How did AA/FS pull off the masquerade of "Anastasia"?
« Reply #67 on: August 27, 2012, 08:36:49 AM »
hey guys-it should be Greg King and Penny Wilson's book!

Sorry Greg, yes, of course. My apologies. Was in a hurry and hadn't had enough coffee yet! I meant no offense or slight, of course.

Rob

Offline TimM

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Re: How did AA/FS pull off the masquerade of "Anastasia"?
« Reply #68 on: August 27, 2012, 10:37:25 AM »
Quote
Greg and Penny's book I am currently reading and it is definitely a good resource for those who want to learn more on this subject

I agree, this is THE book to own for anyone interested in this case.
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Offline Greg_King

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Re: How did AA/FS pull off the masquerade of "Anastasia"?
« Reply #69 on: August 27, 2012, 10:23:37 PM »
No problem Rob!

Offline Romafan96

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Re: How did AA/FS pull off the masquerade of "Anastasia"?
« Reply #70 on: August 30, 2012, 01:21:22 PM »
What baffles me most about this whole saga is the support AA recieved from Gleb and Tatiana Botkin. The support from the Botkins made Anna sound all the more credible seeing as they had been part of the IF's inner circle. Even after the DNA testing came out disproving Ms. Anderson's claim Gleb's daughter, Marina, still belives she was indeed Anastasia.  If they were familiar with the IF surely just by looking at the face they would know that AA was not the real McCoy. I have family members I only see once every 5 or 10 years, and even though they age the basic features still remain the same.

It's easy for us to demonize Anna Anderson because we now have all the evidence which tears her stories to shreds but ultimately it appears she was very troubled individual, and people may have taken advatnage of her fragile mental state for finanacial gain. The fact that she was willing to fight in the courts for over 30 years compliments the theory that she truly believed she was the Grand Duchess Anastasia.

Offline TimM

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Re: How did AA/FS pull off the masquerade of "Anastasia"?
« Reply #71 on: August 30, 2012, 07:05:57 PM »
Gleb and Tatiana Botkin's father was very close to the I.F.  So I just think it was a case of "I want to believe" when AA turned up.  By the time DNA testing was available, Gleb and Tatiana were both dead.
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Offline Greg_King

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Re: How did AA/FS pull off the masquerade of "Anastasia"?
« Reply #72 on: August 30, 2012, 09:45:36 PM »
Gleb and Tatiana were NOT that close to the Imperial Family, and as you can see by reading their previously unpublished statements in our book, they were both forced to look for perceived similarities between AA and Anastasia. But there was nothing nefarious going on-they were both simply wrong.

But as for the late Marina Botkin Schweitzer, whom I knew fairly well: her position is in reality no different than someone like Ernst Ludwig.  Marina believed completely what her father Gleb told her to be true and accepted his word that AA was Anastasia.  Ernst Ludwig never met AA but completely accepted the word of his sister Irene that AA was not Anastasia.  In both cases, they each relied on the integrity and word of family members to help make their decisions.

Offline TimM

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Re: How did AA/FS pull off the masquerade of "Anastasia"?
« Reply #73 on: August 31, 2012, 12:57:17 AM »
I never meant to imply that Gleb and Tatiana had an ulterior motive for siding with AA.  I believe as you believe, that they were just wrong. 

Mind you, at the time they were alive there was still no conclusive proof that the real Anastasia was dead.  That would not come out until after the collapse of the USSR in 1991.  By that time, both Gleb and Tatiana Botkin had died.
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