Author Topic: Grand Duke Kyrill, his wife Victoria Fedorovna and children, Part II  (Read 128503 times)

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Offline Belochka

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Re: Grand Duke Kyrill, his wife Victoria Fedorovna and children, Part II
« Reply #180 on: January 15, 2012, 07:42:41 PM »
Actually, you are all missing the most important piece of the reason why Kyrill could never take the throne.  Maria Pavlovna senior was NOT Pravaslavnoya (Orthodox) when her sons were born.  The Laws of Succession are clear. The Heir MUST BE BORN TO AN ORTHODOX MOTHER.  

Due to the lateness of the hour in Australia I was unable to provide background information concerning the Vladimirovich claim.

Alexander II left a sealed envelope in his study - to be opened after his death - that contained a signed document (and countersigned by Grand Dukes Alexander and Vladimir), which determined the order of succession to the Russian Throne. Granting his approval to the forthcoming marriage, Alexander II specified that Duchess Mariya was not compelled to convert away from her Lutheran faith.  However, there were four conditions that had to be observed regarding the marriage, the first two of which are most relevant to this forum discussion.

Alexander II specified that should Vladimir be in the position to become the Heir to the Throne, according to Statute 142 of The Fundamental Laws of the Russian Empire (1797), he:

 “…could receive the right of succession to the Throne if his wife receives orthodox confession.” But if his wife “during the transfer to him of the rights of succession had not received orthodox confession, then he had … to voluntarily abdicate his aforesaid right”.  [Information to be published by M. Nelipa, 2012].

Shortly before his death in 1894, Alexander III signed a special Ukaz that would protect his son’s right of succession, in which it was decreed that the consort of the Sovereign had to be orthodox upon marriage. This deliberate measure prevented Mariya Pavlovna’s eldest son, Kyril Vladimirovich from taking hold of the Imperial Crown. (For further details see Nelipa @ p 151)
« Last Edit: January 15, 2012, 07:44:53 PM by Belochka »


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Offline RealAnastasia

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Re: Grand Duke Kyrill, his wife Victoria Fedorovna and children, Part II
« Reply #181 on: January 15, 2012, 10:20:34 PM »
In the case of Russia, it would not need be a Romanov.   The people, or whatever represents them,  would choose, just as in  1613. This is purely fantasy, as any such restoration would be highly unlikely.

I agree with you Robert.

Russia's political development does not involve a return to its monarchic past.


Well...In fact I can't said what Russia's future will bring, since I'm not a fortune-teller. I think we must let speak RUSSIAN people by themselves about what they want and what they don't want. We are NOT Russian masters. Russian people is the master of their own destiny. Let future speak by itself. We'll know in some years what could happen.

RealAnastasia.

Offline Kalafrana

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Re: Grand Duke Kyrill, his wife Victoria Fedorovna and children, Part II
« Reply #182 on: January 16, 2012, 03:36:27 AM »
'Alexander II left a sealed envelope in his study - to be opened after his death - that contained a signed document (and countersigned by Grand Dukes Alexander and Vladimir), which determined the order of succession to the Russian Throne. Granting his approval to the forthcoming marriage, Alexander II specified that Duchess Mariya was not compelled to convert away from her Lutheran faith.  However, there were four conditions that had to be observed regarding the marriage, the first two of which are most relevant to this forum discussion.'

Does this document still exist?

Ann


Offline QueenEna1887

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Re: Grand Duke Kyrill, his wife Victoria Fedorovna and children, Part II
« Reply #183 on: January 16, 2012, 05:16:26 AM »
I was just about to ask the same question.....does that document still exist? Maybe that can once and for all blow Maria Vladimirovna out the water with her ridiculous claims.

Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Grand Duke Kyrill, his wife Victoria Fedorovna and children, Part II
« Reply #184 on: January 16, 2012, 03:51:43 PM »
Yes. If the document exists, it would be a game changer to all those who supported Maria's claims (including a royal book publisher).  :D

Offline QueenEna1887

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Re: Grand Duke Kyrill, his wife Victoria Fedorovna and children, Part II
« Reply #185 on: January 16, 2012, 05:08:31 PM »
it has to be in existence most likely the State Archives but it has to be a definite that it exists.  If this is brought to light I'd love to see the look on her face lol...btw her son is a Hohenzollern..he is in no way a Romanov.

Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: Grand Duke Kyrill, his wife Victoria Fedorovna and children, Part II
« Reply #186 on: January 16, 2012, 05:32:57 PM »
Well, neither are the Romanovs, for that matter.
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Offline QueenEna1887

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Re: Grand Duke Kyrill, his wife Victoria Fedorovna and children, Part II
« Reply #187 on: January 16, 2012, 07:16:42 PM »
true but Patrilinealy he belongs to the House of Hohenzollern not Romanov....Apparently the Vladimir's know the rules but want to bend it for their own purposes which violates the law anyway. 

Offline Belochka

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Re: Grand Duke Kyrill, his wife Victoria Fedorovna and children, Part II
« Reply #188 on: January 16, 2012, 07:30:12 PM »
'Alexander II left a sealed envelope in his study - to be opened after his death - that contained a signed document (and countersigned by Grand Dukes Alexander and Vladimir), which determined the order of succession to the Russian Throne. Granting his approval to the forthcoming marriage, Alexander II specified that Duchess Mariya was not compelled to convert away from her Lutheran faith.  However, there were four conditions that had to be observed regarding the marriage, the first two of which are most relevant to this forum discussion.'

Does this document still exist?

Yes, this document is preserved in the Russian State Historical Archive (RGIA) in St. Petersburg.

Margarita


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Offline QueenEna1887

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Re: Grand Duke Kyrill, his wife Victoria Fedorovna and children, Part II
« Reply #189 on: January 16, 2012, 07:33:15 PM »
What is the name of the document? Just curious...it has to have a title.

Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Grand Duke Kyrill, his wife Victoria Fedorovna and children, Part II
« Reply #190 on: January 17, 2012, 09:33:40 AM »
I think that settles the claim of the Vladimir line claim once and for all. Even Maria cannot fight Romanov family law since her whole claim was based upon it.

Offline QueenEna1887

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Re: Grand Duke Kyrill, his wife Victoria Fedorovna and children, Part II
« Reply #191 on: January 18, 2012, 07:21:02 AM »
She has her great-great-grandfather to thank for that....looks as if she hasn't really studied the laws of the Imperial house.  What I would like to know what the name of the document is? 

Offline TimM

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Re: Grand Duke Kyrill, his wife Victoria Fedorovna and children, Part II
« Reply #192 on: January 18, 2012, 11:01:50 AM »
So if they are out of the running, I wonder who would be picked, assuming it ever happens at all.  I would like to think it will, it would be the final repudiation of the 20th Century.
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Offline Kalafrana

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Re: Grand Duke Kyrill, his wife Victoria Fedorovna and children, Part II
« Reply #193 on: January 18, 2012, 11:45:56 AM »
Frederick Forsyth's book 'Icon', which came out in the 1990s, suggested Prince Michael of Kent!

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Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Grand Duke Kyrill, his wife Victoria Fedorovna and children, Part II
« Reply #194 on: January 18, 2012, 03:26:15 PM »
Realistically, He (Prince Michael of Kent) is not that far off. He did built up many bridges in Russia and have many contacts there. They knew him well there (His Russian was pretty good). Also his resemblance to Tsar Nicholas II (his grandmother's cousin) helps too.