Author Topic: Re: Crown Prince Rudolph--controversies, affairs & his death  (Read 166046 times)

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Offline Yelena Aleksandrovna

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Re: Crown Prince Rudolph--controversies, affairs & his death
« Reply #390 on: April 29, 2010, 01:34:00 PM »
Thanks for the fact, surely her hair became a bit darker with the time

Offline Yelena Aleksandrovna

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Re: Crown Prince Rudolph--controversies, affairs & his death
« Reply #391 on: May 03, 2010, 03:08:11 PM »
The next dress belonged to Mary Vetsera, well... better to say, it remained of a dress that belonged Mary
http://nd03.jxs.cz/473/762/d6cfef5eb4_63286808_o2.jpg
Perhaps this was the dress
so known photo
http://nd03.jxs.cz/398/454/93ede6e7e1_63286732_o2.jpg

Offline Veronica

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Re: Crown Prince Rudolph--controversies, affairs & his death
« Reply #392 on: May 03, 2010, 03:59:49 PM »
The next dress belonged to Mary Vetsera, well... better to say, it remained of a dress that belonged Mary
http://nd03.jxs.cz/473/762/d6cfef5eb4_63286808_o2.jpg

That's the dress she was buried with. In 1991 her grave was opened and her body exhumed. Photos were taken of her skeleton and her clothes, and her remains were examined by forensic and dental experts.

Offline Yelena Aleksandrovna

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Re: Crown Prince Rudolph--controversies, affairs & his death
« Reply #393 on: May 04, 2010, 07:02:47 AM »
Wow! It wasn't as damaged at it would be for being buried for a bit more than 100 years...!!!

Offline Imperial_Grounds

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Re: Crown Prince Rudolph--controversies, affairs & his death
« Reply #394 on: May 29, 2010, 04:14:05 PM »
Yes... I believe those tests proved that she was killed by a gunshot... However I still have to read "Crime at Mayerling - The Lif and Death of Mary Vetsera", so I'm not sure about that.
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Offline Yelena Aleksandrovna

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Re: Crown Prince Rudolph--controversies, affairs & his death
« Reply #395 on: June 01, 2010, 01:27:51 PM »
Allegory about Rudolph's death

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Re: Crown Prince Rudolph--controversies, affairs & his death
« Reply #396 on: June 01, 2010, 01:29:47 PM »
New one from the ONB. One of the  best i ve seen of him


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Offline Pezzazz

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Re: Crown Prince Rudolph--controversies, affairs & his death
« Reply #397 on: June 12, 2010, 11:32:15 AM »


The book "The Mayerling Murder" by Victor Wolfson, with the help of Prince F.J.N. Windisch-Graetz, supports their argument that Rudolf was killed on orders of Otto von Bismarck, who no doubt was as ruthless a man as they make them, because he feared that Rudolf would forge an alliance with France and England against Germany.  If this would have happened, then Germany might have been no more -- so the motive is certainly there.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2011, 02:10:37 PM by Svetabel »
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Offline Pezzazz

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Re: Crown Prince Rudolph--controversies, affairs & his death
« Reply #398 on: June 17, 2010, 08:11:36 AM »
i know this topic has been discussed before but the last post was on the 16th January 2008 , so i decided to start a new topic. so here it goes does anyone have any pictures of the room in Mayerling that Rudolph and Mary died in ?

Long time between posts.   Here's a drawing of Rudolf's bedroom on the ground floor.   Was this the room where they were found dead?

http://www.imageshugger.com/images/8i1p8380fwa8bkidz3v.jpg

One has to wonder why they had to go to such great lengths to knock down a door when there were big windows on either side of the bed and the bedroom was on the ground floor?
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Offline aor

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Re: Crown Prince Rudolph--controversies, affairs & his death
« Reply #399 on: June 21, 2010, 08:31:13 AM »
I believe the room where this tragedy took place, was on the second floor of Mayerling.

Offline Pezzazz

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Re: Crown Prince Rudolph--controversies, affairs & his death
« Reply #400 on: June 21, 2010, 10:28:31 PM »
 Hi Aor -- would you remember where you heard the room was on the 2nd floor?   The sources I have seen -- though not a lot -- all say the ground floor.   

--In A Nervous Splendor, it tells how after Loschek got no response from knocking on Rudolf's door, he ran up the main stairs of the two-story lodge and down a small spiral staircase  leading to the back door of the bedroom.  So this clearly indicates the room was on the ground floor.

--The Mayerling Murder  states that The New York Times on Feb 2nd, 1889, reported the assumption by the people in Mayerling region that the window to the left..........had been opened and the sleepers murdered.  This ground floor room faced the southwest and had two large windows about 20 feet apart, and between them stood the bed.

-- Rudolf's private secretary in The Last Days of the Archduke Rudolph, 1916 says that, "All concerned retired after two o'clock in the morning -- the Archduke and the lady to the sleeping chamber on the ground floor."

It makes little sense though that Loschek would have had to break down a solid wooden door with an ax if ground floor windows were available. 

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Offline aor

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Re: Crown Prince Rudolph--controversies, affairs & his death
« Reply #401 on: June 24, 2010, 07:35:21 AM »
I remember seeing a period photograph of the windows in the rooms of the Archduke Rudolph. They had a black cross over them and they did not seem to be on the bottom floor. I'll check my books over the weekend and see if I can locate this picture. Also, I think that first floor locations were 'public space' and private quarters were on the next level up.

Offline Pezzazz

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Re: Crown Prince Rudolph--controversies, affairs & his death
« Reply #402 on: June 24, 2010, 09:19:03 AM »
Floorplan of ground floor of Mayerling given earlier in this thread by brnbg aka: liljones1968: 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v345/skinheadbrian/mayerlinggrndfl.jpg

Upper floor or 1st Floor:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v345/skinheadbrian/mayerling1stfl.jpg

Also, the ground floor windows look easily accessible:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v345/skinheadbrian/mayerlingcourtyard.jpg

So why did Loschek have to use an axe to break down the bedroom door after pounding on it for a long time?   Is that what really happened?  Was Loschek telling the truth, or was he saying what he was told to say?
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Offline Pezzazz

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Re: Crown Prince Rudolph--controversies, affairs & his death
« Reply #403 on: June 29, 2010, 03:19:43 PM »
  Now I must admit to being a little shocked, but then everything about the Meyerling mystery is one surprise after another and where the truth is could be anyone's guess.  In the book "He did not die at Meyerling", the author mentioned meeting with Rudolf and Franz Ferdinand one or more times and spoke highly of Franz, so it's not like he didn't know him.  Some people may  just be terrible at photo recognition, but still, you'd think there was some editing for a book!

Despite all, this book still seemed plausible for several reasons.  It was supposedly written by a son of CP Rudolf, who was very circumspect about giving any information out that might identify himself or his adopted family.  He said he wrote the book to set the record straight and to repair the memory and reputation of his father.  He was in his late 60s when his book was published in 1937 and he claimed absolutely no interest in reclaiming his heritage.
 
Interestingly someone named Robert Pachmann first filed for recognition as CP Rudolf's legitimate son in 1937, but from the dates, he would have been about 5 years younger than the author (R) of the above book.  Pachmann kept up his fight for recognition for the next ~30 years.
 
R's side of the story was that after the semi-coup was overturned, CP Rudolf went to his father to deny any intention of replacing him as emperor, but Franz Joseph was angry still and made Rudolf sign a renunciation of succession for himself and all his children and told him he was not fit to be crown prince.   So Rudolf decided to fake his death and move to another continent.  Rudolf had a close friend who became R's foster father who was only referred to as the doctor, since he was a surgeon and an artist.   The plan was through the doctor's contacts to get a body from the morgue resembling Rudolf, and then the doctor would redo the face using wax molds.  His work was about done at Meyerling when Maria Vetsera showed up unexpectedly and thought Rudolf had been killed and she then started fighting with some of the guards surrounding the procedure and she was accidentally shot in the torso.
 
The couple reasons I think there may be some validity to it is the Emperor was beside himself with grief during the funeral, but within a few weeks, he was unusually cheerful.  I don't remember where I read that (not the book) but his quickly recovered cheerful mood was a mystery to many close to him, knowing how much he suffered when his son supposedly killed himself.
 
The other reason is the disappearance of Rudolf's close friends, including John Orth, at about the same time.  I also think Bratfisch and Larisch moved to South America at about the same time as Rudolf's "death".  Why would all these people suddenly move to the other side of the world when Rudolf died?
 
Then there's another story where some thought it was Rudolf who showed up in El Salvador in the late 1880's who became the father in ~1898 of an uncle to the wife of Nash, the protaganist in the movie "A Beautiful Mind".  This wife came from a prominant family named Larde' in El Salvador.  http://www.math.dartmouth.edu/~lamperti/Justo_Armas.html

« Last Edit: April 05, 2011, 02:13:01 PM by Svetabel »
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Offline Mandie, the Gothic Empress

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Re: Crown Prince Rudolph--controversies, affairs & his death
« Reply #404 on: June 29, 2010, 09:14:12 PM »
not so sure about that, he was body was there at Meyerling. it was his body and dead. that story sounds pretty wacked out.