Author Topic: Re: Crown Prince Rudolph--controversies, affairs & his death  (Read 165712 times)

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Offline Pezzazz

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Re: Crown Prince Rudolph--controversies, affairs & his death
« Reply #450 on: September 15, 2010, 01:57:20 PM »

...............There was found a tray(? for cigarettes) in the Hofburg on which Mary wrote "I prefer a gun, no poison".......
 

I can't help but wonder if Mary ran out of paper ;)  I read that it was with violet colored ink that Vetsera wrote on the inside of the ashtray.  
 
On the note of violets, I've been looking for the earliest books published on Mayerling to try and get a better idea of what theories changed when and by whom.  The earliest one I've read in part thusfar was published in 1899 called The Martyrdom of an Empress  by Marguerite Cunliffe-Owen.  The author states that Mary was clutching 2 bunches of violets when Bratfisch picked her up outside the Vienna florist on her fateful journey to Mayerling.  

Before I continue with the author's very reasonable early theory of what happened at Mayerling, there was something strange that caught my eye.  This author stated that Crown Princess Stephanie refused to accompany her husband on his trip to England to celebrate Queen Victoria's Golden Jubilee because Stephanie could not face the humiliation of having her husband run after a girl who should still be in school, namely Mary Vetsera and furthermore Stephanie had heard that Rudolf was meeting the Vetsera girl even in Vienna before the planned trip to London.

Queen Victoria's Golden Jubilee was held in June 1887, almost 1.5 years before Rudolf and Vetsera were suppose to have started their relationship!!

So I did a little checking to see where this information might be supported other than this book written in 1899 -- and it was verified in a book written about 5 or 6  years later by Joachim von Kürenberg in his coversations with Katherine Schratt where she stated that Crown Princess Stephanie had told her of her stress and worry about Rudolf and Vetsera's relationship in mid 1887.  

This little discrepancy of at least 1.5 years lopped of the relationship of Rudolf and Mary is amazing.  Then the elaborate explanations to ensure that it was known their relationship was not consummated before only a little over 2 weeks before their deaths?  Was that suppose to rule out speculation on some pregnancy?  What was the point?  Why was it so important to shorten the known relationship?  
« Last Edit: September 15, 2010, 01:59:00 PM by Pezzazz »
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Offline heavensent

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Re: Crown Prince Rudolph--controversies, affairs & his death
« Reply #451 on: September 18, 2010, 12:57:37 PM »
 Looking at pics of Mary Vetsera.... she had  amazing chestnut coloured hair... very long... down to her waist.... so like Sissi ! 
(Maybe that is what so attracted Rudolf ? )

Offline Pezzazz

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Re: Crown Prince Rudolph--controversies, affairs & his death
« Reply #452 on: September 18, 2010, 03:01:39 PM »
One good proven source deserves some more attention to the book published in 1899 called The Martyrdom of an Empress  by Marguerite Cunliffe-Owen.  Countess Cunliffe-Owens was a New York gossip columnist and novelist where she moved with her husband from France.  Frederick Cunliffe-Owen wrote newspaper editorials and society columns concerning, for the most part, European affairs and the social life of the nobility, becoming an editor of the New York Herald Tribune in 1889.

The Martyrdom of an Empress was first published anonymously and was thought to be ghost-written for a close lady-in-waiting to the Empress Sissi from the time of her marriage to her death.  However true the entire book may or may not be, it is one of the first books written about the Mayerling deaths and so is widely quoted/plagiarized and its theme no doubt is the source for the romance and drama in the movies about the events at Mayerling.

Unfortunately, the book is rather extreme in its biases, i.e., Rudolph and his parents couldn't be more wonderful while the Crown Princess Stephanie and Marie Larisch could not have been more evil, but those extremes rarely represent the truth.

Excerpt:  
Quote
...............that justice has never been done to the motives which led this plucky, courageous, honorable, and also sincerely religious young man to give himself to death. It was rumored at the time, and it also has been declared since, that before committing an act so severely condemned by the Catholic Church he had actually killed with his own hand the woman whom he loved better than life. This is thoroughly and shamefully untrue. Marie Yetsera died during the night of the 29th to the 30th of January, 1889, and she did die in the arms of the Crown-prince, but it was not he, as everybody persists in believing, who killed her. It has been authentically proved that it was she herself who cut short her fair and beautiful existence while Rudi had absented himself for a moment from the salon where they had been talking together.

My objections to the above is that I'm fairly certain Rudolph was not sincerely religious although his parents might have assumed such.  I also doubt that he loved Marie Vetsera better than life, or maybe that's some of my own bias?  It's as his ADC stated in 1914 -- she was not his usual type of girlfriend and he had a hard time to understand the attraction.  

However it is reasonable to believe, given the supposed nature of Mary Vetsera and her youth that she might have killed herself when Rudolf told her for whatever reason that they had to stop seeing each other.

Quote
The awful disclosure which the young man made to her was truly of a nature to unbalance the steadiest brain, and Loschek, the valet, said later on that he had heard, when passing the door, on different occasions, the muffled sound of violent sobbing...............................The crumpled letter which Marie had written to her mother was not the only one of the sort found, for when her dress was removed another sheet of paper, evidently torn out of a book, was discovered secreted in the corsage. It was intended for her sister, and I give here a copy of it:
" He has told me all. I cannot tell you what he did tell me. I can never be his now. I am alone for a moment, while he has gone down to send away Bratflsch. I knew that something dreadful would happen to prevent our being happy, so I brought the poison with me, and I am going to drink it. When he returns it will be too late to save me, and I will die in his arms, happy to be with him till the last............

I can't help but notice that all the letters of eternal love come from Vetsera and none from Rudolph?  

Contrary to the later idea, perhaps started by Marie Larisch, that Vetsera was found nude and wounded (eye out of socket), this author states that:

Quote
......................On the lounge near the window lay the body of Marie Vetsera, still dressed in her dark serge gown, but with all the violets of her two bouquets scattered about her....................Her white face, outlined against the silk of the cushion upon which her head was resting, seemed cut out of marble.

And Vetsera's death
Quote
....................has been more than disproved by the autopsy performed upon Marie, which revealed the fact that she had died from strychnine poisoning, and that her death had preceded that of the Crown-prince by more than two hours.

And this was followed by:  
Quote
Could anything have been more dreadful than the despair of the unfortunate young man when, after having disclosed to his beloved the true reason which made it impossible for him to fulfil his promise of marrying her as soon as he had succeeded in obtaining the dissolution of his union, he found that she had swallowed the deadly drug which she had brought with her ? When, a few minutes later, she breathed her last in his arms, no wonder indeed that, seeing his honor jeopardized, his hopes dashed to the earth, and his entire existence ruined, he should have decided to end his own career without any further delay!

Also in contradiction to the claims of Marie Larisch and usually accepted today, Vetsera's body was not removed from Mayerling under the macrabre circumstances of being supported by some broomstick but instead:  
Quote
By the care of Count Bombelles, the Crown-prince's tutor and best friend, who had been sent immediately by the Emperor to take charge of everything at Mayerling, the fair body of Marie Vetsera was concealed in a room which Count Bombelles himself locked with his own hands.

On the night of the 31st of January a small posterndoor in the northern wing of the castle was stealthily opened, and another black, unadorned coffin was carried by four trustworthy attendants into the depths of the woods, where another fourgon awaited it. It was conveyed as secretly as possible to the chapel of Heiligenkreutz, and from there, twenty-four hours later, to a distant railway station, where it was embarked for Trieste, and taken thence to Venice.

Alas, this glorious and sweet drama was not to stick -- but how and why did it get derailed?  Part of the answer might be right in this book itself.  Despite its absolute support of the crown prince, it also revealed something about him that totally shocked me.   Maybe I over react, and maybe that was considered normal back then, but I found this behavior of Rudolph no less than chilling............................to be continued ;)








« Last Edit: September 18, 2010, 03:05:28 PM by Pezzazz »
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Offline heavensent

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Re: Crown Prince Rudolph--controversies, affairs & his death
« Reply #453 on: September 18, 2010, 06:19:02 PM »
Rudolf was certainly a handsome young prince  in his early years.... but thats no surprise as his mother was one of the most beatiful women in Europe



Offline heavensent

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Re: Crown Prince Rudolph--controversies, affairs & his death
« Reply #454 on: September 18, 2010, 06:26:53 PM »
That amazing   hair.... so reminds me of Sissy... was Rudolf secretly finding a substitute for his mother in
Mary Vetsera ?  ( scroll up for a pic of the handsome Rudolf )
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« Last Edit: September 18, 2010, 06:29:07 PM by heavensent »

Offline Pezzazz

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Re: Crown Prince Rudolph--controversies, affairs & his death
« Reply #455 on: September 18, 2010, 07:37:05 PM »
Thank you so much for the photo Heavensent.  I don't think I've seen that particular one -- though others similar to it -- but this one is more clear.   Yes, he certainly was a handsome fellow -- also with charm and intelligence.................his mind sparkled and his tongue flashed and he could be irresistible when he wanted.  Unfortunately, it seemed he also had some enemies.
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Offline Carolath Habsburg

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Re: Crown Prince Rudolph--controversies, affairs & his death
« Reply #456 on: September 18, 2010, 08:58:26 PM »
Miniature of young Rudolph



 

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Offline Pezzazz

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Re: Crown Prince Rudolph--controversies, affairs & his death
« Reply #457 on: September 18, 2010, 09:45:57 PM »

A baleful looking Mary?



« Last Edit: September 18, 2010, 09:48:25 PM by Pezzazz »
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Offline Carolath Habsburg

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Re: Crown Prince Rudolph--controversies, affairs & his death
« Reply #458 on: September 18, 2010, 10:11:46 PM »
Mary Vetsera reminds me sometimes Archduke Franz Ferdinand. The same  big and clear eyes.

BTW, here a Flickr friend of mine uploaded a picture  of Mitzi Kaspar looking awesome



http://www.flickr.com/photos/23912178@N08/4121807588/in/set-72157605495077854/
« Last Edit: September 18, 2010, 10:18:54 PM by Katenka_Fyodorovna »

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Offline Pezzazz

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Re: Crown Prince Rudolph--controversies, affairs & his death
« Reply #459 on: September 18, 2010, 11:16:22 PM »
That's great to see another photo of Mitzi Kaspar.   Thanks Katenka_Fyodorovna!   Now there's two of her that I've seen.  She looks a little like Stephanie maybe? 
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Offline Carolath Habsburg

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Re: Crown Prince Rudolph--controversies, affairs & his death
« Reply #460 on: September 19, 2010, 09:16:40 AM »
Wel...i hnestly think that Stephanie, at least  her face, was prettier than Mitzi`s

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Offline Pezzazz

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Re: Crown Prince Rudolph--controversies, affairs & his death
« Reply #461 on: September 19, 2010, 09:31:34 AM »
You're probably right - Stephanie was prettier than Mitzi.   All 3 of Rudolf's known women though were no great beauties -- they looked more like the average girl next door.  Maybe that's why Rudolf liked them?  Or maybe it's all due mostly to the difference between royal court photographers and the usual photographers? 

I must say though I really like the way Mitzi is dressed in that last photo of her here.   It looks simple and fresh compared to the usual dark, heavy and overly elaborate court dress of the time.
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Re: Crown Prince Rudolph--controversies, affairs & his death
« Reply #462 on: September 19, 2010, 10:03:06 AM »
Well i dont thinik it was a photographer`ms matters. It was just that the concept of beauty was different back then and men liked other things in women, beside how pretty they face were (AKA curves in their bodies, their performance in bed, etc, talking about mistresses)

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Offline Imperial_Grounds

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Re: Crown Prince Rudolph--controversies, affairs & his death
« Reply #463 on: September 19, 2010, 02:19:02 PM »
Thank you so much for the photo Heavensent.  I don't think I've seen that particular one -- though others similar to it -- but this one is more clear.   Yes, he certainly was a handsome fellow -- also with charm and intelligence.................his mind sparkled and his tongue flashed and he could be irresistible when he wanted.  Unfortunately, it seemed he also had some enemies.

Certainly, he did not only inherit his handsome features from his mother, or his free and liberal spirit, but also the tendency to show his preferences too clearly. For a Monarch or a Member of a Ruling Family this could be dangerous... See how Elisabeth was loathed for her liking of the Hungarians, and Rudolf later on too... One thing Rudolf, his mother and wife had in common, this love for Hungary. But then again, Rudolf and Elisabeth were in favor of the English form, a constitution, Stephanie probably knew how that worked as she grew up in a constitutional country, but her love of pomp and splendor might have turned her to like the absolute monarchy...

Also, in 1889 rumours spread about Rudolf and Mary's death... In a book I have about Rudolf, "Rudolf - Der Weg Nach Mayerling", there is an edited picture of Rudolf and Mary together in a carriage, claimed to be done as early as 1889.... Once I get the chance I'll scan that one and post it here.

I keep thinking they should do a movie about her for once, it would give a different take on the events... We've seen them through the eyes of Rudolf, Mary and Elisabeth and it would be nice to see how Stephanie took it all...
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Offline heavensent

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Re: Crown Prince Rudolph--controversies, affairs & his death
« Reply #464 on: September 20, 2010, 12:37:48 PM »
did I read somewhere that  Rudolf had a mother fixation ?
Mary Vetsera and her long, auburn hair would back up that theory