Author Topic: Re: Crown Prince Rudolph--controversies, affairs & his death  (Read 174046 times)

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Offline imperial angel

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Re: Crown Prince Rudolph--controversies, affairs & his death
« Reply #60 on: May 19, 2006, 03:36:57 PM »
I think he would have been dead, but not his influence at all. He lived a self destructive lifestyle, and there is no way he could have survived all that long. He was on on the wrong path. And the war would have happened anyway, it is just that it may not have been as bad.

Offline ilyala

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Re: Crown Prince Rudolph--controversies, affairs & his death
« Reply #61 on: May 23, 2006, 09:03:59 AM »
Quote
Indeed....had Rudolph lived longer,  the course of events might have been different. But by the time of Mayerling, Rudolph was already quite ill with a venereal disease (gonohrrea). WWI started 25 years after his death, so it could be that he was already dead.



that is a good point (i am not very knowing about rudolf's condition). however, my observation remains valid if you place him in healthy environment with a healthy lifestyle.

i'm sorry, i'm just a big 'what if' fan  ::)
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Offline Marie Valerie

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Re: Crown Prince Rudolph--controversies, affairs & his death
« Reply #62 on: May 23, 2006, 09:35:55 AM »







Rudolf in his last photoshot, looking not healthy anymore....

Offline Kaiserin Sissi

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Re: Crown Prince Rudolph--controversies, affairs & his death
« Reply #63 on: June 15, 2006, 03:53:56 PM »
That someone can give to me informations, and maybe photos, about  Robert Pachmann the Illegitimate son of Rudolf and Archduchess Maria Antonia of Austria-Toscana. I dont know if is a Rumor or if is true.

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Offline erzsi

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Re: Crown Prince Rudolph--controversies, affairs & his death
« Reply #64 on: June 15, 2006, 03:58:40 PM »
I know that Robert Pacher was born 1881 and died 1969 but i think this marriage between rudolf and antonia is a lie.

Offline Kaiserin Sissi

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Re: Crown Prince Rudolph--controversies, affairs & his death
« Reply #65 on: June 15, 2006, 04:05:07 PM »
I think so too. But maybe, Rudolf and Maria Antonia have an liaison and have a baby, what do you think ?

Offline Marie Valerie

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Re: Crown Prince Rudolph--controversies, affairs & his death
« Reply #66 on: June 15, 2006, 04:32:56 PM »
Never! That is so untrue!

Antonia became only 25 years old,
her weakness and illness would never give her a chance to survive a childbirth.

Beside that, Antonia was from the Habsburgs of Tuscany,
which were very religious...

And a secret marriage with Rudolf is absurd.
Why should it keept as a secret, his sister Marie Valerie also married a Tuscany of Habsburg.


Offline MarieCharlotte

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Re: Crown Prince Rudolph--controversies, affairs & his death
« Reply #67 on: June 15, 2006, 05:01:43 PM »
Maria Antonia or "Antoinette" as she was called by her family, wasn't in good health since she was born. She suffered from a lung disease, maybe tuberculosis.
In 1860, when she was only two years old, she left Tuscany for Salzburg. There she lived with the rest of her family in the exile. When Antoinette was ten, her father married a second time. She came along very well with her step-mother Alix, Princess of Bourbon-Parma. I read in the autobiography of Antoinette's eldest half-sister Louise that she was a very intelligent woman and that she was admired by her little siblings. Antoinette had indeed a lot of interests. Above all she loved poetry and wrote nice little poems. Her teacher published them after her death. Antoinette became abbess of the so-called "Theresianisches Damenstift" in Prague. Because of her bad health she lived in the last years of her life in Cannes. There she died on 13 April 1883. She was laid to rest in Vienna. Her father Ferdinand IV. loved Antoinette a lot and was devastated after her death.

Antonia's marriage to Rudolf is a rumour, of course. It had been discussed in the Italian section of this message board some months ago.
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Offline Vaska_Meow

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Re: Crown Prince Rudolph--controversies, affairs & his death
« Reply #68 on: June 16, 2006, 08:30:09 PM »
Rudolf seemed to have the deck stacked against him from birth. That poor family was screwed up eight ways from Sunday.
I've always been a fan of sweet, starry eyed Mary Vetsera, poor romantic little girl. She thought she'd copped the golden prize and ended up with a very troubled Prince Charming and a much too early death, bless her .


Vaska is back, and this time...it's personal.

Offline MarieCharlotte

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Re: Crown Prince Rudolph--controversies, affairs & his death
« Reply #69 on: June 23, 2006, 05:20:40 PM »
There is another story about an alleged son of Rudolf ...  ;)

Rudolf got to know Johanna Buska, an actress of the Burgtheater in Vienna, in 1877. Johanna was 11 years older than the Crownprince. When Franz Joseph was informed about their intimate relationship, he made Rudolf leave for Prague where he was supposed to forget his actress. But Johanna, who really seemed to be in love with Rudolf, traveled to Prague, too. In April 1880, Franz Joseph was informed about the pregnancy of Johanna. For the Emperor it was the easiest solution to find a husband for Johanna. So she had to marry Nikolaus Kasimir Török de Szendrö, who was 35 years older than her. Nikolaus was definitely not the father of Johanna's child and if you keep in mind the Emperor's attempts to keep the paternity of this child in secret, it's definitely possible that Rudolf was the father.

Alexander Bernhard Eduard Valentin Kasimir, Johanna's son, was born on February 14th 1881. His step-father Nikolaus died when he was four. Another four years went by and Johanna married Angelo Neumann who worked at the theatre of Prague. After Neumann's death, Johanna returned to Vienna. Alexander, her son, lived in Budapest where he married Sophie Jovanovits in June 1912. No one actually knows what happened to Alexander ... maybe he lived in Budapest for the rest of his life? Marie Larisch - who else, by the way  ::) - claimed to have seen him somewhere in America.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by MarieCharlotte »
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Rebecca

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Re: Crown Prince Rudolph--controversies, affairs & his death
« Reply #70 on: June 25, 2006, 02:00:48 AM »
[size=14]
Quote
Alexander, her son, lived in Budapest where he married Sophie Jovanovits in June 1912. No one actually knows what happened to Alexander ... maybe he lived in Budapest for the rest of his life? Marie Larisch - who else, by the way  ::) - claimed to have seen him somewhere in America.


According to a source, count Sándor (Alexander) Török de Szendr[ch337] died 12 February 1939 in Budapest. He seems to have been childless. By the way, his mother Johanna Buska married count Miklós (Nikolaus) Török de Szendr[ch337] 20 May (happens to be my birthday  ;D) 1880, and Sándor was not born until 14 February 1881, so Johanna Buska could hardly have known she was pregnant when she married count Miklós. (That is, of course, if the source gives the correct dates.)[/size][/font]

Offline MarieCharlotte

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Re: Crown Prince Rudolph--controversies, affairs & his death
« Reply #71 on: June 25, 2006, 05:08:35 AM »
Well, could you tell me the source? Sounds quite interesting ...

By the way: There are nine months between May 1880 and February 1881 - maybe Alexander was a ten-month-baby (just like me  ;)) and Johanna had already known of her pregnancy by the time she married Nikolaus.
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Rebecca

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Re: Crown Prince Rudolph--controversies, affairs & his death
« Reply #72 on: June 25, 2006, 02:55:14 PM »
[size=14]I should have put the link to the source up already, but silly me never thought of it.  :-[ :D Anyway, here it is: http://genealogy.euweb.cz/hung/torok4.html If you scroll a little, almost to the end of the page, you will find count Miklós Török de Szendr[ch337] and his (second) wife, Johanna Buska, and also Sándor, of course.

On the picture you posted of Johanna Buska and her son (a charming picture, by the way), I can not really see anything of crown prince Rudolf in the child, but maybe a little of the empress Elisabeth...or maybe I am wrong.  ;) After all I have no idea of what the official father, count Miklós, looked like.

Well, I guess it is possible that Sándor was a ten month baby...  :)[/size]

Offline MarieCharlotte

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Re: Crown Prince Rudolph--controversies, affairs & his death
« Reply #73 on: June 26, 2006, 03:58:53 AM »
Thanks for mentioning, Rebecca.

I must confess that I have doubts about Rudolf's paternity. The book Habsburg Intim is nicely written, but I think the author used half-thruths and made realities of them. There is mentioned a lot about possible illegitimate children, wives and mistresses, but usually they don't give sources.

In the book it is claimed that many people told Alexander that there was a great resemblance betweem him and Rudolf ... I can't see it either.  ;)
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Nichts soll mich wieder bringen.


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Offline britt.25

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Re: Crown Prince Rudolph--controversies, affairs & his death
« Reply #74 on: June 26, 2006, 04:11:48 AM »
Are there any adult pictures of him (Alexander)?
Then maybe it would be easier to decide :)

Did Alexander think that Rudolf is his father? What did his mother tell him, who he is?
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