Author Topic: Relation to Alix  (Read 36829 times)

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Offline imperial angel

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Re: Relation to Alix
« Reply #30 on: January 16, 2007, 05:19:43 PM »
Okay. I don't know much about the Winter Queen's children. Why then did the British royal descent go through her daughter Sophia to George I? Why didn't it go through Elisabeth of Bohemia's eldest surviving son, and his children? Is because they already had the Palatinate?

Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: Relation to Alix
« Reply #31 on: January 16, 2007, 05:41:50 PM »
Both Charles Louis and his son were dead by the time the Act of Settlement was passed. Liselotte and her issue were Catholic, as were all of Sophia's other surviving children and their descendants.
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Offline bell_the_cat

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Re: Relation to Alix
« Reply #32 on: January 17, 2007, 05:13:44 PM »
Yes, I guess that Charles Louis' younger children (the Raugraves and Raugravines) were passed over because of the bigamous nature of his second marriage...... not sure though!
Never put off until tomorrow what you can put off until the day after tomorrow. (Mark Twain)

Offline bell_the_cat

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Re: Relation to Alix
« Reply #33 on: January 17, 2007, 05:19:51 PM »
Lieslotte lived for a time with her grandmother the daughter of James I. In later life she met her grandson ( though maybe only once), the father of Marie Antoinette.  :o
Never put off until tomorrow what you can put off until the day after tomorrow. (Mark Twain)

Offline FaithWhiteRose

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Re: Relation to Alix
« Reply #34 on: July 11, 2007, 09:30:17 PM »
Yes, i have always thought that this was possible!
which also means Alix could be related to my other fave of history..Elizabeth 1!  ::) ;D

and she is!  :) through Mary Stuart was Margaret Tudor's grandmother, and Margaret Tudor was an aunt of The Virgin Queen aka Liz the first.

Offline FaithWhiteRose

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Re: Relation to Alix
« Reply #35 on: July 11, 2007, 09:52:25 PM »
Dear Martyn

My Russian isn't great - it would have taken me around eighteen years, seven months and three and a half weeks to read, so I relied on a friend reading it aloud in translation - a real luxury... apart from the fact that, with the exception of the title, it was rather superficial.

A paperback, I think it must have been around 1996 when I purchased it in St Petersburg.   It now resides in Gibraltar with the Russian friend who skimmed a translation.

Now that I have remembered, and thought, about it again, I realize perhaps it was an opportunity lost.   The similarities and contrasts between these three ladies and their fates are worthy of serious study.

tsaria

Indeed. Even reading the title of that book made me want to read it. It's unfortunate it was superficial. I think someone should do a better job in English of writing such a book. Alexandra identified with Marie Antoinette, and there is much there to discuss. In addition, Mary, Queen of Scots blood ran in the veins of Alexandra, and the Radzinsky bio of Nicholas II does a good job talking about that. I am curious, though does anyone know if Marie Antoinette and Mary, Queen of Scots were related at all? I think that would be an interesting link, but I can't see that she would be descended from her, except perhaps through that sister of Charles II, who married a French royal, and had two daughters, I think. But, that is unlikely. I am no expert on genealogy of MA, so would be happy if someone could help me out.

Imperial Angel

The Last Tsar does mention the "dark blood of Mary Stuart stirring" in AF veins.  I think I understand the geneology of this but how does these two women relate to Charlemagne?  i know i read that.  And I know you are pretty well versed in Mary Stuart.  Can you help?

Lori

Through Charlemagne came the Normans . . . I think. I'm not positive about that, but some way or another, the first royal house of England came through Charlemagne. William the Conqueror, hence his name, conquered England, through him came Queen Matilda who married Geoffrey Plantagenet of Anjou, they had a son Henry II and through him and Eleanor of Aquitaine came Edward III and his sons. Edward's grandchildren spent most of their time fighting over the throne, and whoever took the throne of England never had a secure grasp on it. Edward III's son, John of Gaunt, had a great-granddaughter named Margaret Beaufort. Margaret Beaufort was married at twelve to Edmund Tudor, and they had a son together, name Henry Tudor. Henry Tudor claimed the throne of England, became King Henry VII and found a whole new dynasty. He already was Plantagenet (though half-royal), but Elizabeth of York (a woman who came through another one of Edward III's sons) had a more reasonable claim to the throne than he did. He married her to strenghthen his own claim to the throne, thus uniting the English houses of Lancaster and York. They had eight children, three surviving to adulthood, one of them being Margaret Tudor. Margaret was married to James IV of Scotland, and they had James V of Scotland whose daughter was Mary, Queen of Scots. After Elizabeth I died, Mary's son (Margaret's great-grandson) became King of England and therefore King of all of Britain. Through him came the houses of Hanover (and a Russian marriage in between, which makes Nicholas II a descendant of the Tudors and Stuarts) or Windsor, and so Alix, being Queen Victoria's granddaugher, had Stuart/Tudor/Plantagenet/Charlemagne blood in her veins, as did her children, and even her husband because of that Romanov marriage.
That being explained, now all you have to do is tell me you understood it  ;). if you go to wikipedia, they have fabulous family trees there (though a bit inaccurate, though it will let you get a better sense out of what I just said). Just type in: Category:Family Trees in the search box.

Offline Norbert

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Re: Relation to Alix
« Reply #36 on: March 06, 2008, 11:58:39 AM »
Charlemagne was never king in England. A wonderful book by Mike Ashley " British Monarchs" can trace the kings of the British Isles to Roman Times and into legend

Offline FaithWhiteRose

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Re: Relation to Alix
« Reply #37 on: March 08, 2008, 07:47:03 PM »
No, Charlemagne was never King of England; but William the Conqueror was descended from him.

Offline Norbert

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Re: Relation to Alix
« Reply #38 on: June 21, 2008, 03:24:59 PM »
Every royal family would like to claim Charlemagne as an ancestor. Here is a wonderful site exploring the reality of these claims...so often found false    .http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/GERMANY,%20Kings.htm

Offline Red Rose

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Re: Relation to Alix
« Reply #39 on: March 19, 2009, 10:06:59 PM »
Alix was also related to the Tudors, as Mary, Queen of Scots's grandmother was Margaret Tudor, wife of James IV of Scotland, but sister of Henry VIII!!!!!!!! I thought that was awesome.

Offline mcdnab

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Re: Relation to Alix
« Reply #40 on: March 21, 2009, 02:09:15 AM »
Every British Monarch from James VI and I and their descendants which include both Alexandra and Nicholas II *he was descended from James through both his parents as well* have to line of descent from Henry VII and his wife Elizabeth of York.
Line 1 - Henry VII - Margaret Tudor - James V of Scots - Mary of Scots - James VI and I
Line 2 - Henry VII - Margaret Tudor - Lady Margaret Douglas - Henry Lord Darnley - James VI and I
##

Offline ilyala

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Re: Relation to Alix
« Reply #41 on: April 08, 2009, 07:26:44 AM »
Every royal family would like to claim Charlemagne as an ancestor. Here is a wonderful site exploring the reality of these claims...so often found false    .http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/GERMANY,%20Kings.htm

Every royal family in Europe DOES have Charlemagne as ancestor. the descent comes through Judith of Flanders who was his granddaughter (daughter of his son, Charles the Bald). She married Baldwin of Flanders (after she married Ethelwulf of Wessex - no issue there). Their son was Baldwin II, whose son was Arnulf I, whose son was Baldwin III, whose son was Arnulf II, whose son was Baldwin IV, whose son was Baldwin V, whose daughter was.... Matilda of Flanders, wife of William the Conqueror. So all monarchs of Britain, starting with Henry I, were descended from Charlemagne.

I honestly believe there's no royal in Europe right now descending from Willaim the Conqueror, but feel free to prove me wrong :).
'loving might be a mistake, but it's worth making'
ilya


Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: Relation to Alix
« Reply #42 on: April 08, 2009, 05:48:15 PM »
Ilyala, as far as I know, the current reigning houses of Europe -  Liechtenstein, Denmark, Norway, Spain, the Netherlands, Luxembourg, Sweden, Belgium, Monaco and the UK (obviously) -  are descended from William the Conqueror.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2009, 05:50:00 PM by Prince_Lieven »
"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"
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"Men forget, but never forgive; women forgive, but never forget."

Offline mcdnab

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Re: Relation to Alix
« Reply #43 on: April 09, 2009, 10:28:13 PM »
And you could add the deposed ones to that list as well.

Offline ilyala

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Re: Relation to Alix
« Reply #44 on: April 10, 2009, 05:55:20 AM »
First of all, my apologies: Charles the Bald is not the son but grandson of Charlemagne (son of Louis the Pious).

Second of all, William the Conqueror's dad, Robert the Magnificent, was the son of Judith of Brittany. She was the daughter of Ermengarde of Anjou who was the daughter of Adele de Vermandois.  Adele de Vermandois was the daughter of Robert de Vermandois, son of Herbert II de Vermandois, son of Herbert I de Vermandois, son of Pepin de Vermandois. Pepin was the son of Bernard of Italy, who was Charlemagne's grandson through his son Pepin of Italy.

Just another link from Charlemagne to William the Conqueror.
'loving might be a mistake, but it's worth making'
ilya