Author Topic: Question: What would Alexandra have thought of Adolf Hitler?  (Read 16805 times)

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Offline davidov

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Re: Question: What would Alexandra have thought of Adolf Hitler?
« Reply #45 on: February 18, 2017, 12:25:55 PM »
You make an interesting point earlier about AF and her sympathy and support of the American Russian-Jew, who returned to fight. Similar accounts of NII exist, and are often referenced as evidence against his anti semitism.

However, many modern thinkers are missing is an important 'element' of anti-semitism prior to WWII, which was that it was a socio-political prejudice of sorts. Individuals and societies as a whole, felt "ill at ease" with large communities of Jews, whether they were rural peasants, or part of the educated bourgeosie, as they felt they were growing in influence, and capital, and threatened the status quo.  A lot of this had to do with Christianity, and the assumption that as Jews, they could not share common interests. So I guess what I mean here is that the key thing was ‘Jewish communities’ and influence. As such, an anti semite, such as AF, could easily make an exception, and recognise a Jew favourably, especially if an individual did not represent any of those supposed threats (aka: they were not political, overtly religious, aka orthodox, and assimilated). To quote the antisemite role model for Hitler. Karl Lueger “I decide who is  Jew”.

A lot of people try to discount the antisemitism of NII and AF, but the evidence is pretty clear, and we must remember that this was very normal (well, not pogroms, they were widely condemned in Western Europe), but prejudice against Jews was very common. I personally assume most figures in Europe held them, but also that they probably had cordial relations, or even friendships, 1:1 with the many Jews that lived throughout Europe. Sadly it was this dynamic that Hitler, using populism, was able to take advantage of.


Offline Nictionary

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Re: Question: What would Alexandra have thought of Adolf Hitler?
« Reply #46 on: February 04, 2018, 11:03:36 PM »
Not meaning to play devil's advocate, but it's worth noting there were a number of White Emigres who viewed Hitler as a liberator.  For example, the White Cossack generals Shkuro and Krasnov both fought alongside the Nazis on the Eastern Front.  Grand Duchess Victoria was close to Ludendorff and showed an interest in the Nazi Party, which appealed to her because of its anti-Bolshevik stance and her hope that the movement might help restore the Russian monarchy.  She and Kirill attended a Nazi rally in Coburg in 1922 and Victoria donated money to the party.  The monarchist Duma leader Nikolai Markov became a follower of the Nazi party and undertook lectures and propaganda duties for them.  In 1942, Kirill's son Vladimir was interned by the Nazis after he refused to issue a manifesto calling on Russian émigrés to support Nazi Germany's war against the Soviet Union.  But in June 26, 1941, he issued this statement: "In this grave hour, when Germany and almost all the nations of Europe have declared a crusade against Communism and Bolshevism, which has enslaved and oppressed the people of Russia for twenty-four years, I turn to all the faithful and loyal sons of our Homeland with this appeal: Do what you can, to the best of your ability, to bring down the Bolshevik regime and to liberate our Homeland from the terrible yoke of Communism."  After Germany's defeat, Vladimir met with Boris Smyslovsky, a former White officer who led the pro-Nazi 1st Russian National Army.

Then there was Fyodor Vinberg, commander of the 2nd Baltic Cavalry Regiment.  Alexandra was honorary colonel of the regiment and Vinberg developed a strong emotional attachment for her.  After the Revolution, he fled to Germany and became convinced that Jews had been Alexandra's murderers.  He published one of the first editions of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion in the West.  Vinberg was a leading member of the Aufbau Vereinigung, a Munich-based counterrevolutionary conspiratorial group that brought together White Russian émigrés and early German National Socialists who aimed to overthrow the governments of Germany and the Soviet Union, replacing them with authoritarian régimes of the far right. The Aufbau Vereinigung was a vital influence on the development of Nazi ideology in the years before the Beer Hall Putsch of 1923 as well as financing NSDAP with, for example, funds from Henry Ford. It gave Hitler the idea of a vast Jewish conspiracy, involving a close alliance between international finance and Bolshevism and threatening disaster for mankind.  Recent research on Hitler's early years in Vienna appears to have shown that his antisemitism was at that time far less developed than it became under the new influences.  Other prominent members were Ludendorff, Alfred Rosenberg, and Boris Brasol, a prosecutor in the Beilis case and Kirill's official US representative who published the first US edition of the Protocols.  Vinberg called for "Aryan peoples" to unite against the "Jewish plan for world domination".  For Russia, he advocated a return to the strong authority of the Tsar, which he hoped to restore, with German help.  He had lengthy and detailed discussions with Hitler on ideological matters.  Richard Pipes writes that "it was Vinberg and his friends who first called publicly for the physical extermination of the Jews." Vinberg appears to have been responsible for Hitler's conversion to the idea of worldwide Jewish-Bolshevist conspiracy.  Also many of Alfred Rosenberg's own ideas were said to have been lifted straight from the writings of his friend Vinberg. Although his influence on Nazi thought declined following the failure of the Beer Hall Putsch in 1923, when anti-Slav sentiment gained ascendancy in Nazi policy, Michael Kellogg argues the influence revived with the invasion of the Soviet Union in 1941 and bears some responsibility for the horrors that occurred.
The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it.

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Offline Phoenix

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Re: Question: What would Alexandra have thought of Adolf Hitler?
« Reply #47 on: February 10, 2018, 01:27:59 PM »
A lot of people try to discount the antisemitism of NII and AF, but the evidence is pretty clear, and we must remember that this was very normal (well, not pogroms, they were widely condemned in Western Europe), but prejudice against Jews was very common. I personally assume most figures in Europe held them, but also that they probably had cordial relations, or even friendships, 1:1 with the many Jews that lived throughout Europe. Sadly it was this dynamic that Hitler, using populism, was able to take advantage of.

I've read that pogroms in Russia were quite common throughout the 19th century and there were many, bloody pogroms against the Jews in Odessa and other towns in the early 20th century when Nicholas was Tsar.