Author Topic: Re: Alexandra and her Health Part 2  (Read 67930 times)

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Offline imperial angel

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Re: Re: Alexandra and her Health Part 2
« Reply #30 on: December 19, 2005, 11:35:55 AM »
Thanks for the above interestimg info! I think when we contribute something to another person's understanding of an issue, then we contribute alot. ;) And you contributed alot to my understanding of this issue.

Offline Donya_P

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Re: Re: Alexandra and her Health Part 2
« Reply #31 on: December 24, 2005, 09:19:47 PM »
Hello,

I believe that this is too early for the electric Shock therapy that is/was used for depression.  It was probably the application of a low current to "energize" muscles.  Has anyone seen the movie "Secret Garden"?
Thats the idea.
--Donya

Offline Sadie

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Re: Re: Alexandra and her Health Part 2
« Reply #32 on: December 26, 2005, 11:37:34 PM »
Personally I think that one of the most important things people seem to not realize is that just because someone is born royal or with all the money in the world does not make their lives necessarily happy or easy.

Alexandra tried to do the best she could with what she had and she tried to do what she thought was best. So was she a nutcase? Alexandra was a foreigner and the fact that she German did not bode well with the people before and after her marraige, her Russian was not well, Her only son and heir to the throne of Russia was not expected to live into adult hood, and she was a shy and depressed to boot. All those things combined don't make life easy for any person.

Offline Joy0318

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Re: Re: Alexandra and her Health Part 2
« Reply #33 on: December 28, 2005, 04:18:05 AM »
I do not think she was a nutcase. She was just extremely shy and may have had some emotional problems but she was not psychotic.  Neurotic--maybe, but I am not going to pass judgement on her. As a shy person I think she found it very difficult to be in the public eye all the time.

But in my opinion what had the biggest effect on her emotionally was the health of her son. She blamed herself for causing Alexei's illness and knew firsthand that the disease could be fatal. Her brother and uncle had died from hemophilia and she was in a constant state of worry about Alexei.  But what do you expect? I think she handled the situation better than I would have done. How do you think you would feel day to day if you knew your only son was probably going to die young?  It's just unfortunate that the one person who could help Alexei was the most corrupt man in all of Russia. She was easily swayed by him and since he was able to help Alexei she overlooked that fact that he was a drunk and an opportunist.
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leushino

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Re: Re: Alexandra and her Health Part 2
« Reply #34 on: December 28, 2005, 11:05:53 AM »
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Alexandra a nutcase?

What a broad question to pose. Maybe when did Aleksandra become unstable would be better. I have always been of the opinion the Aleksandra did not have the proper training, education, lifestyle and personal traits to be a successful Empress of all the Russias. A savvy princess of the Royal House of Bourbon-Orléans would have had a much better chance at success in Russia. Aleksandra would have been much more comfortable married to a minor German or Austrian prince such as a Reuss, Schwartzenburg, Saxe-Meiningen, Lippe or Esterházy. Such a marriage would be less stressful and would not push her faults be they physical, social or emotional to the forefront.

What is unfortunate is that Aleksander III and Maria Feodorovna did not push Nikolai Aleksandrovich to marry a more appropriate and suitable princess.

I do beleive that as the pressures of being the Empress of all the Russias built one upon another, starting with the death of Aleksander III and the disaster of Khodinka Field, Aleksandra Feodorovna slowly slipped away into a world of her own, socially paralyzed by her pre-existing phobias, obsessions and religious superstitions. Was she unstable? In the end of course she was unstable but was this mental condition inevitable or was it brought about by envoronmental stress? I believe that Aleksandra with her pre-existing mental defects could have had a fully functional life in a different, less stressful environment. Aleksandra Feodorovna, with her psyche, was driven to the edge of madness by the demanding postion of Empress of all the Russias.

David



What a wonderful encapsulation of the person and the situation. I completely agree.

Offline Grace

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Re: Re: Alexandra and her Health Part 2
« Reply #35 on: December 28, 2005, 05:48:44 PM »
I agree with what David has said too -- very succinctly put.  It's a shame to hear that he has left the forum.

I've mentioned it before somewhere, but it's extremely odd that, even though she was so much in love with Nicky, Alicky seemed to give no thought at all that her marriage to him would mean that in time she would become Tsarina.  Did she not see at all what was involved with the position and that she was totally unsuited for it?

Offline Tsarina_Liz

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Re: Re: Alexandra and her Health Part 2
« Reply #36 on: December 30, 2005, 09:59:11 PM »
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I've mentioned it before somewhere, but it's extremely odd that, even though she was so much in love with Nicky, Alicky seemed to give no thought at all that her marriage to him would mean that in time she would become Tsarina.  Did she not see at all what was involved with the position and that she was totally unsuited for it?


A normal person would have, but to her it was all part of her destiny and of God's plan.  She put a lot of faith in the Big Guy.  Certainly He would not have put her on the throne of Russia if she were not meant to be and ready for it.
Hindsight is 20/20.  When the myopic haze of of the present is lifted by the march of time we see it clearly as the past.  Sociology, psychology, anthropology.  They are all means of understanding that which came before.  History cannot stand alone.

calebGmoney

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Re: Re: Alexandra and her Health Part 2
« Reply #37 on: December 31, 2005, 03:21:28 PM »
I do believe she wasn't completely normal. Even Eugene Botkin told Gleb that "he can no longer think of the Empress as completely normal." Some of the things she did, like making Nicholas comb his hair with a 'magic' comb from Rasputin really are a tad bit strange.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by calebGmoney »

Offline Grace

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Re: Re: Alexandra and her Health Part 2
« Reply #38 on: January 01, 2006, 05:48:44 AM »
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I do believe she wasn't completely normal. Even Eugene Botkin told Gleb that "he can no longer think of the Empress as completely normal." Some of the things she did, like making Nicholas comb his hair with a 'magic' comb from Rasputin really are a tad bit strange.


calebGmoney, I haven't heard the "comb" story.  Could you tell it, please, or direct me to where I may read about it?

Thank you.  :)

P.S. I never thought Alexandra was mentally unbalanced exactly, but a "magic comb from Rasputin" now has me wondering... :-/ ::)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Grace »

Offline CountessKate

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Re: Re: Alexandra and her Health Part 2
« Reply #39 on: January 01, 2006, 08:04:21 AM »
Botkin's diagnosis of Alexandra being 'not normal' was the sort of thing men were always diagnosing about women in the 19th century.  The other diagnosis was that of hysteria, which Botkin also attributed to Alexandra.  It was a form of attempted control, particularly for women in positions either of power or perceived power.  Alexandra, as the wife of the Russian autocrat, self-secluded from any other close contacts except her immediate family, was particularly subjected to this sort of judgement, not just by Botkin.  However, a very similar diagnosis was made of her grandmother, Queen Victoria, by her husband Prince Albert, who was frightened of her emotionalism and wanted more political control.  In both cases these sorts of judgements were made by well-meaning men who nevertheless were not in the positions of control as they would have expected normally to be, and sought to quite literally rationalise the situation by such views.  I think Alexandra was obstinate, tactless, politically naive, and prone to emotional judgements, but I haven't seen anything which convinces me she was actually insane.  As for 'not normal', however many people may have been writing behind Alexandra's back that she was not normal, or hysterical, or just a nutcase, there wouldn't have been a single person who would have said it to her face, except in a roundabout, respectful sort of way which she could brush aside.  And that, of course, just make her feel that what she did was right and she shouldn't bother with views other than her own, however stupid or actually insane she may have appeared to others.  

Alixz

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Re: Re: Alexandra and her Health Part 2
« Reply #40 on: January 01, 2006, 08:42:14 AM »
I, too, remember the "magic" comb.  I can't remember wher I read it, but I'll pull out my books and have a look.

I do think, however, that it was in a letter to Stavka.  I don't know if Nicholas already had the comb or
if she was sending it to him.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Alixz »

Offline Joy0318

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Re: Re: Alexandra and her Health Part 2
« Reply #41 on: January 01, 2006, 12:15:07 PM »
Quote
I do believe she wasn't completely normal. Even Eugene Botkin told Gleb that "he can no longer think of the Empress as completely normal." Some of the things she did, like making Nicholas comb his hair with a 'magic' comb from Rasputin really are a tad bit strange.


I've never heard about that before. It doesn't surprise me though since Alix was so under Rasputin's influence. I think she would  have done anything he told her to.  Still I don't think this would qualify her an insane or a nutcase.
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leushino

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Re: Re: Alexandra and her Health Part 2
« Reply #42 on: January 01, 2006, 01:08:26 PM »
Hi Joy

I would agree with your assessment. In fact, it brings to mind my mother (who reposed many years ago)... a wonderful woman who was... rather superstitious. Mum was far from insane or even abnormal, but like many of her era, she had a superstitious bent that caused her to do things in a certain way. And for that matter, how many of us have the same little idiosyncrasies? I remember playing sports and refusing to wash my socks "if" my team was on a winning streak! Alexandra, it seems to me, was simply exhibiting the same behavior.  ;)

Offline Grace

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Re: Re: Alexandra and her Health Part 2
« Reply #43 on: January 01, 2006, 04:28:59 PM »
I disagree here.  For the ruling consort of all the Russias to be slavishly following the advice of a filthy peasant who, no matter how she closes her ears to it, other people including family members, government officials and more had vociferiously spoken out against speaks volumes about her instability, I think. Whether it was mental instability or not I don't know, but it was certainly instability, in my opinion.

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Grace »

Offline Joy0318

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Re: Re: Alexandra and her Health Part 2
« Reply #44 on: January 01, 2006, 04:46:37 PM »
I agree that she did have some emotional problems most of which were brought on by her extreme shyness and her constant worry about her son. Emotionally unstable--yes.  A nutcase--no.  I also agree with leushino in that she was probably superstitious.
A horse is a horse of course of  course
And no one can talk to a horse of course
That is of course unless the horse
Is the famous Mr. Ed.