Author Topic: Re: Alexandra and her Health Part 2  (Read 83241 times)

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Offline AGRBear

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Re: Re: Alexandra and her Health Part 2
« Reply #435 on: October 30, 2010, 11:58:52 AM »

Bear - One of the things that is bothersome to a lot of people who have a problem with organized religion (and please don't anyone skewer me) is the belief that if something good happens it is God's will, but if something bad happens, then God moves in mysterious ways.


The  belief that everything is "God's Will" falls under the subject of "fatalism",  which Nicholas II was burden from the day,  Jobs Day, he was born by his religious teachers.

Sometime ago,  I pulled out sources about Nicholas'  fatalistic views on different important events.  To me,  this explains why  he and his family never attempted any kind of escape.  It was always:  "What God Wills".  

As for the aspirin:

Quote
Also, I have never heard that Alexei was being given the chemical that we call Aspirin.  Can you give us your source?  It makes a great deal of sense for aspirin to be discontinued even though the doctors and probably Rasputin as well did not know of the bleeding risks.  That might be one of the greatest coincidences in history
 

I believe this was brought up a long time ago on one of the AP threads about Alexei and Rasputin.   I don't recall the poster's source.  But the fact stuck in my head.  Maybe someone who has time can run it through "search".  I have to  close,  I have things I need to do today.

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"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Offline AGRBear

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Re: Re: Alexandra and her Health Part 2
« Reply #436 on: November 01, 2010, 12:12:43 PM »
In a book by the french author Frederic mitterand I've learn that if Raspoutine saved Alexei's life during his crisis, it's because he asked the doctors to stop his medicines which were based on aspirin. Of course now we know it favour bleeding but is that possible that doctors ignored at this time and that they gave aspirin to Alexei?
I would like to know if somebody else heard about it ???

"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Alixz

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Re: Re: Alexandra and her Health Part 2
« Reply #437 on: November 01, 2010, 03:15:28 PM »
I know that Belochka also mentioned it in the threads about Rasputin and Alexei under the Rasputin sub forum.

However, there doesn't seem to be a source no matter where I check.

But I wouldn't doubt that the doctors didn't know about the blood thinning properties of aspirin in the early part of the 20th century.  The big notice of it didn't come in the latter part of the century until the 1980s and/or 1990s.  Up until then everyone, including babies, took aspirin for every ache and pain.  The whole Reyes Syndrome thing didn't come out until the 1980s either.

Even if researchers knew about these things, the average person didn't and with aspirin available without a prescription everyone just took it.

Offline AGRBear

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Re: Re: Alexandra and her Health Part 2
« Reply #438 on: November 05, 2010, 03:24:23 PM »
Perhaps the information is in the following book:

In this book:

Quote
Frederic Mitterrand has written a book called "Mémoires d'exil". It's about the royal families after the WW1. I found my informations here.

http://www.amazon.fr/exec/obidos/ASIN/2266104519/qid=1093274128/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_8_1/171-3726130-1171452

http://www.alapage.com/mx/?id=87491054807505&donnee_appel=KELKO&tp=F&type=1&l_isbn=2266104519&devise=&fulltext=&sv=X_L

"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Offline STKF

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Re: Re: Alexandra and her Health Part 2
« Reply #439 on: November 08, 2010, 10:29:27 AM »
I can vouch for stress related problems. I believe that they can cause havoc with your health. Alexandra was under major stress. With the pressure to produce an heir, the public functions she had to attend, the friction between herself and Dowager Empress  & Alexei's illness.  I can feel for her as I get chronic migraines and nasty siactia. That must have been very painful for her to have to get up & go.

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Re: Re: Alexandra and her Health Part 2
« Reply #440 on: November 09, 2010, 08:33:20 AM »
I understand the stress factor.  I think that most of us do in some way or another.

As I said earlier, I don't like Alexandra much, but I do understand some of what she was going through.  I just think that she handled her problems wrong. 

We have always said that Nicholas had to take his "lumps" for his decisions and actions, I just think that Alexandra had to take hers as well.  If we can't make excuses for his bad decisions, then we shouldn't be making them for hers either.

When she took on the job of Nicholas's wife, she also took on the job of Empress.  She knew that.  So "getting up and going" was her job as well as producing that all important heir.

How many of us would lose our jobs if we didn't get up and go every day?  And - this is more important - how many people with serious handicaps and illnesses get up and go in spite of their problems?

Offline AGRBear

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Re: Re: Alexandra and her Health Part 2
« Reply #441 on: November 19, 2010, 04:28:28 PM »
I can't even begin to imagine the different kinds of depression Alexandra must have suffered due to all the different kinds of stress from the time Nicholas II left to take up the role of Commander-in-Chief to his abdication to their arrest and to the last few moments as she stood with her family and others in front of their executioners in the basement room in the Ipatiev House.  

AGRBear
« Last Edit: November 19, 2010, 04:34:43 PM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Offline Geniebeanie

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Re: Re: Alexandra and her Health Part 2
« Reply #442 on: December 06, 2010, 09:23:18 PM »
I often wondered if she suffered from a depression, or mental illness even before Alexis was born and his hemophilia was known.   She had to know what was required by the wife of a Tsar, she either refused or could not do the public duties.  The Russian people  wanted  and needed to see the Royal couple, she only wanted to live like a private couple with the children in the AP.  It was like she did not want to meet her responsibilities.    No wonder the Russian people thought she hated the country and them.  I know she loved her adopted country but it seemed like only on her terms.

Offline LauraO

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Re: Re: Alexandra and her Health Part 2
« Reply #443 on: December 07, 2010, 04:40:46 AM »
I often wondered if she suffered from a depression, or mental illness even before Alexis was born and his hemophilia was known.   She had to know what was required by the wife of a Tsar, she either refused or could not do the public duties.  The Russian people  wanted  and needed to see the Royal couple, she only wanted to live like a private couple with the children in the AP.  It was like she did not want to meet her responsibilities.    No wonder the Russian people thought she hated the country and them.  I know she loved her adopted country but it seemed like only on her terms.

i don't think it was so much just on her own terms, people who are  shy (for want of a better word) do not do well in public and find it difficult to act wonderfully engaged when they are. i don't think she had a mentall illness or depression pre alexei, perhaps a kind of depression post his birth. yes she knew what was required of her and what she needed to do, but she just couldn't do it- she couldn't pull it off, and she was wrong to do so. a tsarina should be a person prepared to be in the spotlight, the centre of attention at balls or public events- not absolutley necesary for an effective consort, but it helps with public appreaence. alix just wasn't like that. Helen Rappaport's "Ekaterinberg" is pretty good for an insight into alix's health and what made her the way she was. i think she should, or even needed to be prepared to be in the spotlight sometimes, but it wasn't her fault that God made her unwilling or unable to be. she was who she was.

Offline Kalafrana

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Re: Re: Alexandra and her Health Part 2
« Reply #444 on: December 07, 2010, 05:46:50 AM »
Shyness seems to have been widespread among Queen Victoria's grandchildren and great-grandchildren - George VI was the extreme case apart from Alexandra. However, most of them steeled themselves and managed to function in their public role at least at an adequate level. Being quite shy myself, I know that there is such a thing as 'putting on an act', which enables a person to get through things they'd rather not have to do. There is also the possibility, for some people in the public eye, of keeping their exposure to things they don't enjoy to a manageable level. So Alexander III, who didn't like balls, would turn up, do his duty dances, and then bumble round chatting for an hour or so before heading home with relief.

Unfortunately, these are things Alexandra never learned.

Ann

Alixz

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Re: Re: Alexandra and her Health Part 2
« Reply #445 on: December 07, 2010, 08:48:02 AM »
George VI had other problems.  Along with his shyness.  He was left handed and was made to use his right hand.  That is a very debilitating thing to do to anyone.

It exacerbated his other emotional problems and caused him to stutter.  He did, though, practice public speaking and with the help of his wife Queen Elizabeth (before she was the Queen Mum), he overcame a lot of his problems.

His wife, Queen Elizabeth, always blamed his young death on his brother Edward VIII.  She felt his selfishness in abdicating to be with Wallis Simpson was one of the things that put extra pressure on George VI and caused his early death.

George VI did, though, do what Alexandra did not.  He rose to the occasion like the true great grandson of Queen Victoria that he was.  If only Alexandra could have been like so many of her ancestors, cousins and their descendants, she would have stood up and did her job.

Posters make all kinds of excuses for her, and while I know that some of what she suffered would be too much for even the long suffering Job (as Nicholas always compared himself to) to comprehend and deal with, we don't make as many excuses for others who were in equally tough situations.


Offline historyfan

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Re: Re: Alexandra and her Health Part 2
« Reply #446 on: December 07, 2010, 09:28:08 AM »
Some of the others aren't figuratively tarred and feathered like she was, either.

Offline LauraO

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Re: Re: Alexandra and her Health Part 2
« Reply #447 on: December 07, 2010, 01:39:35 PM »
alexandra made mistakes, it was part of the job to be good in public or at least look like you were. and as for her health in connection to this i think that she honestly did feel (physically) lousy sometimes and thats why she looks wrist slittingly depressed. but despite what she should or shouldn't have done, or why in terms of health she acted the way she did,even though i agree that as tsarina (and an intelligent woman) she should have been able to act like she should  in public -i think that its a little disheartening  that she has been dead for over 90 years , and we are still moaning about her on here for the same things that she was attacked for then- some of the things that made her life a misery.

as previously mentioned the things that she had to deal with and the stress that she was under was immense- having a serious impact on her health- it wasn't what was wrong with her and what problems she had- because its obvious that serious issues were there- but its the WAY that she dealt with them.

Offline Kalafrana

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Re: Re: Alexandra and her Health Part 2
« Reply #448 on: December 08, 2010, 03:27:18 AM »
'it wasn't what was wrong with her and what problems she had- because its obvious that serious issues were there- but its the WAY that she dealt with them.'

Precisely. In some ways it may have been even more difficult for George VI as men are expected to cope with everything life throws at them. As Alixz says, he had speech therapy and largely overcame the stutter (though he never enjoyed making speeches). He rose to the occasion and became a very popular king precisely because he faced up to his problems and did his job.

Ann

Offline LauraO

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Re: Re: Alexandra and her Health Part 2
« Reply #449 on: December 08, 2010, 09:58:31 AM »
i agree that as a man george VI would have probably felt more pressure to act the right way- especially as sovereign, however the circumstances that alexandra were in are pretty exceptional, and can be viewed in her favour or against her. as far as facing up to her problems i think its easier said than done, but arguably she SHOULD have been able to do so- interesting point in itself. i also think that the way she dealt with some (not all) things was the only way that she really could have- like i said, not always, most certainly NOT trying to back up all that she did wrong, but just making the point that some that she did "wrong" in the eyes of many was one of those things when you're like - what else could have been done? i think sometimes she knew what to do- just didn't do it- whether that was through arrogance, or personal affliction or something else i  don't know? i think anxiety contributed to a lot- anxiety brought on from pressure over the years, mostly post alexei's birth. in the early days of being consort alix should have adapted imo- but i feel that by the war years if she'd done flips and handstands it wouldn't have made a scrap of difference.