Author Topic: Her Accent  (Read 30615 times)

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Offline Превед

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Re: Her Accent
« Reply #75 on: January 07, 2016, 03:05:14 PM »
GILLIARD NOTE: Queen Victoria did not like the Germans

Did Gilliard write this lie? Just proganda for the Entente cordiale, when in fact Queen Victoria disliked Russia (both for geopolitical and moral purposes) much more than Germany or France.
Березы севера мне милы,—
Их грустный, опущённый вид,
Как речь безмолвная могилы,
Горячку сердца холодит.

(Афанасий Фет: «Ивы и березы», 1843 / 1856)

Offline Maria Sisi

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Re: Her Accent
« Reply #76 on: January 07, 2016, 03:25:18 PM »
Queen Victoria was definitely not anti-German. She was as pro-German as one in her position could be.

She originally wanted a German wife for Bertie and only settled on Alexandra when they realized the German princesses weren't going to cut it. She was one of the few who were okay with how Prussia acted towards Denmark. While she disliked Prussia's treatment of the other German states and Austria she still supported them more so then everybody else.

And most of all she would have been horrified with the Russian British alliance Bertie set up. She NEVER would have considered it. While she may have been frustrated with Germany at times for not doing as she saw they should do she most definitely would have taken their side over Russia and France.

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Re: Her Accent
« Reply #77 on: January 07, 2016, 05:10:12 PM »
Hilliard was mistaken in claiming that Queen Victoria disliked the Kaiser. Though she told him off from time to time she was very fond of him.

How good was Buxhoeveden's English, and what language did she write her book in?

Ann

Perfect and un accented.  She wrote the book in English.

Offline JamesAPrattIII

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Re: Her Accent
« Reply #78 on: January 19, 2016, 06:32:34 PM »
I believe Buxhoeveden was a Instutka Institute girl which means she went to the Smolny Institute where the ladies had to speak some days in English, Some days in French, Some days in German and some days Russian.

Offline AGRBear

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Re: Her Accent
« Reply #79 on: October 06, 2016, 07:37:03 PM »
Albert, Prince Consort was a German.  He spoke German as his first language.  After his marriage to Queen Victoria he requested that behind closed doors the family should speak German in his presents.  Therefore, all of his children spoke German and I believe Alexandra, also, spoke German with her own father before she lived with Queen Victoria.

Because of Hitler and the Nazi take over of Germany,  the British wanted to cover over their own German blood and changed themselves into the House of Winsor.  Remember,  they had been des. of the old German farmer Georgie I of Hanover who never spoke English.  History books have downplayed how German Queen Victoria was. 

This old bear is old enough to remember that universities and high school taught German for those who were going into the field of medicine.   French and ballet were taught to the girls who had social status.  In Austria the upper class spoke Italian....  The British laughed at our American English while Americans vowed never to bow to anyone. 

AGRBear
 
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Offline Maria Sisi

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Re: Her Accent
« Reply #80 on: October 06, 2016, 08:40:17 PM »
Albert, Prince Consort was a German.  He spoke German as his first language.  After his marriage to Queen Victoria he requested that behind closed doors the family should speak German in his presents.  Therefore, all of his children spoke German and I believe Alexandra, also, spoke German with her own father before she lived with Queen Victoria.

Because of Hitler and the Nazi take over of Germany,  the British wanted to cover over their own German blood and changed themselves into the House of Winsor.  Remember,  they had been des. of the old German farmer Georgie I of Hanover who never spoke English.  History books have downplayed how German Queen Victoria was. 

This old bear is old enough to remember that universities and high school taught German for those who were going into the field of medicine.   French and ballet were taught to the girls who had social status.  In Austria the upper class spoke Italian....  The British laughed at our American English while Americans vowed never to bow to anyone. 

AGRBear
 

Actually Victoria spoke German with her mother and governess long before Albert entered the scene. So it was the language she grew up with behind closed doors as a child and naturally continued to be after her marriage to Albert. It was the common language they shared together. They had German pet names and Victoria liked to say if it were not for her position she would be no happier then to be his little German Fräulein. She needed no requests from Albert when it came to things German, she was enthusiastic about it all on her own.

Also the family changed their name to Windsor during WW1 LONG before Hitler entered the scene. Anti-German feeling was running high and many with German sounding last names had their lives ruined even if they had considered themselves British and not German for generations. It was a sore point for the King who was sensitive about the issue. The Battenbergs (I believe Louis(?) lost his position in the navy because of the German surname despite years of honorable service) changed their name to Mountbatten the same time the royal family changed theirs on orders by the King.

Offline Превед

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Re: Her Accent
« Reply #81 on: October 07, 2016, 08:12:45 AM »
Remember,  they had been des. of the old German farmer Georgie I of Hanover who never spoke English.

I think you are confusing the German George I, who often stayed in his ancestral Hanover, with George III, who was nicknamed "Farmer George" and never left the island of Great Britain.

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History books have downplayed how German Queen Victoria was.
What does it really mean to "be German"? Before 1871 there was no German nation state. Queen Victoria, although largely of German heritage and speaking German at home (like the American daughter of German immigrants in the Midwest!) never visited or stayed in Germany untill she was an adult and a reigning monarch. (Her first visit abroad was to France in 1843, then to Germany in 1845.)

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In Austria the upper class spoke Italian....
I doubt that Italian was the dominant idiom in Vienna's erste or zweite Gesellschaft. I'm sure many members of the aristocracy learned Italian (rather easy when you already know French and Latin) because of the prestige of Italian culture at the Habsburg court, but few of the aristocratic families had their roots and estates in the Italian provinces. Far more common was probably some knowledge of one of the Slavic languages (Czech, Slovakian, Polish, Slovenian etc.) spoken by their maids, nurses, servants etc. But those languages were of course not fashionable in society, like Italian was, even though they probably had more (secret) sentimental significance for the aristocrats than Italian had.

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This old bear is old enough to remember that universities and high school taught German for those who were going into the field of medicine.

Strange, wouldn't Latin be more useful in medicine?
Березы севера мне милы,—
Их грустный, опущённый вид,
Как речь безмолвная могилы,
Горячку сердца холодит.

(Афанасий Фет: «Ивы и березы», 1843 / 1856)

Offline AGRBear

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Re: Her Accent
« Reply #82 on: October 07, 2016, 07:05:01 PM »
So glad to see people are still paying attention.   It's been sometime since I jumped into AP and I  failed to be as accurate as I should be among the cream-of-the-crop of European historians. 

George III was "the farmer" and lucky for the US was ruling when we had our "Rebellion of the Colonies".

True,  the House of Hanover was changed to Winsor in 1917 which I should have said first then added:  ...due to the Hitler and Nazi Germany,  the British wanted to farther distance themselves from being German.   

I was glad to see that some posters  realize how German the British royal family was. 

As far as accents,  I have cousins who have grown up in the Midwest who's first language was German and didn't learn English until they entered school.  Some still carry the telltale accent of German which tells people their first language was German.  Others have lost their accent.  My folks spoke different dialects of German  (High and Low) and it was hard for them to communicate so they spoke English in our home and I never learn to speak German.  I was probably the only German-Russian-American kid in our town that didn't speak German first.  My mother's mother spoke seven languages and always with a German accent.  My mother spoke German first then English but hasn't an accent.  She can switch back and forth from one language to the other with ease.  My younger son had an ear for language just like my mother's mother.... No accent when speaking any language he voiced.   So,  it just depends on the person.  In Alexandra case she spoke German first.  Did she have an accent?  I think it would depend on the person who was listening and being able to detect an accent.  Also,  our speech changes as we grow older.  It depends upon who we are around...  I often fall into being a mimic and have to catch myself so I do not offend anyone.

AGRBear




"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Offline AGRBear

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Re: Her Accent
« Reply #83 on: October 07, 2016, 07:17:48 PM »
German and Latin were important in the field of medicine before the mid 1950s.

A person does not have to live in Germany to claim their German heritage.  The Winsors and Romanovs have their share of German ancestors. 

AGRBear
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Offline Превед

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Re: Her Accent
« Reply #84 on: October 08, 2016, 03:55:57 AM »
Glad to see you back, Bär :-)

German and Latin were important in the field of medicine before the mid 1950s.

My impression is that French medicine was ranked very highly untill WW1 / WW2, while Germany was ranked very high in general science.

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A person does not have to live in Germany to claim their German heritage.
True. I was thinking of loyalty to that heritage. People tend to be loyal to the places they live and, if they come from another place, possibly also to that place of origin. Very interesting to take into account with regard to political figures influencing alliances etc.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2016, 03:57:31 AM by Превед »
Березы севера мне милы,—
Их грустный, опущённый вид,
Как речь безмолвная могилы,
Горячку сердца холодит.

(Афанасий Фет: «Ивы и березы», 1843 / 1856)