Author Topic: What was Alexandra's Native Language and Maiden Name?  (Read 34530 times)

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Offline Sunny

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Re: What was Alexandra's Native Language and Maiden Name?
« Reply #15 on: August 05, 2011, 06:24:51 AM »
The Windsor haven't always been Windsors. I'm going by memory here - weren't they Saxe - Coburgh and Gotha? But i'm sure they changed the surname into Windsor (yes, like the castle and the town where the castle is!) in 1914 due to anti - germanism with the beginning of the war. In the same way, Battemberg (german surname) changed themselves into Mountbatten, much more english. (i think someone has already said it, so sorry if i'm repeating).
If i recall well, the first czars had "Rurik" as surname, but it was not a real surname, it was the name of a place (= von hessen). When Romanov family came into succession with Ivan the Terrible's wife, for the first time czars had a real surname.
But what most people don't know is that "Romanov" is a quite common surname in Russia.
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Offline Kalafrana

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Re: What was Alexandra's Native Language and Maiden Name?
« Reply #16 on: August 05, 2011, 07:28:24 AM »
Sunny

You are quite correct about Windsor, which was adopted by George V for himself and his descendants in 1917. Before that it was unclear whether the British royal family had a surname, and, if so, what it was. Windsor is actually not a particularly uncommon surname here - the actors Frank Windsor and Barbara Windsor (not related to one another) come to mind.

As to Alexandra's native language, I think she grew up bilingual in English and German. However, that doesn't necessarily mean that she didn't have an accent when speaking English. There is a recording of the Kaiser speaking English in the 1930s, and he had a slight but quite definite German accent (in particular, he couldn't manage the English th- sound).

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Offline LauraO

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Re: What was Alexandra's Native Language and Maiden Name?
« Reply #17 on: August 05, 2011, 07:36:08 AM »
the British monarchy's surname is pretty messed up. Really the current royal family's surname is mountbatten, but it is known as windsor, which is really saxe-coburg-Gotha, lol
nothing is ever straight forward.
question- when charles becomes king will it continue to be windsor or change to the proper name mountbatten?
this is why its so complicated with alix because they change so often and it can get so muddled over the decades. Von Hessen sounds right to me, anyone know if it changed from further back?

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Re: What was Alexandra's Native Language and Maiden Name?
« Reply #18 on: August 05, 2011, 09:11:43 AM »
I think that going back in time that we would find many people had no surname.  They were simply identified by where they lived.

Also in looking at the Hessian family names list and genealogy we find that there was "William - surnamed the Wise" and "Maurice - surnamed the Learned".  Things like that.

As each generation married they would take on the place name of where they lived or where their spouse came from.  Hence George III of England was a Hanover and Prince Albert was Saxe Coburg Gotha.  All place names.

In England, though, there were the Tudors and the Lancasters which appear to be surnames.  Then Mary, Queen of Scots who was surnamed Stuart.

I think that the inception of the German into the English ruling house brought about the loss of a proper surname.

I find it interesting that Queen Mary (wife of George V) of Tek's family became Cambridge in 1917 when all of the German titles were abandoned.  Now, of course, Prince William and Catherine are the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge.

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Re: What was Alexandra's Native Language and Maiden Name?
« Reply #19 on: August 05, 2011, 09:18:31 AM »
While her uncle King George IV reigned over Great Britain and Ireland, Victoria lived a quiet, secluded childhood in Kensington Palace with her mother and a largely German-speaking household. German was Victoria's first language, though she soon mastered English.

http://www.sparknotes.com/biography/victoria/section1.html

Offline historyfan

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Re: What was Alexandra's Native Language and Maiden Name?
« Reply #20 on: August 05, 2011, 09:05:27 PM »
I think that going back in time that we would find many people had no surname.  They were simply identified by where they lived.

Also in looking at the Hessian family names list and genealogy we find that there was "William - surnamed the Wise" and "Maurice - surnamed the Learned".  Things like that.

As each generation married they would take on the place name of where they lived or where their spouse came from.  Hence George III of England was a Hanover and Prince Albert was Saxe Coburg Gotha.  All place names.

In England, though, there were the Tudors and the Lancasters which appear to be surnames.  Then Mary, Queen of Scots who was surnamed Stuart.

I think that the inception of the German into the English ruling house brought about the loss of a proper surname.

I find it interesting that Queen Mary (wife of George V) of Tek's family became Cambridge in 1917 when all of the German titles were abandoned.  Now, of course, Prince William and Catherine are the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge.

There were also surnames derived from who one's parents were.  Wasn't the prefix "Fitz" originally defined as "the illegitimate child of (blank)"?  ie FitzWilliam, or FitzRoy?

aleksandr pavlovich

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Re: What was Alexandra's Native Language and Maiden Name?
« Reply #21 on: August 05, 2011, 10:39:29 PM »
The useage of "Fitz" did not always/automatically denote the illegitimacy of a male.  Its origin is quite early, probably the Norman language.      Regards,  AP.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2011, 10:42:05 PM by aleksandr pavlovich »

Offline LadyAstraea

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Re: What was Alexandra's Native Language and Maiden Name?
« Reply #22 on: August 05, 2011, 11:36:49 PM »
Quote
I find it interesting that Queen Mary (wife of George V) of Tek's family became Cambridge in 1917 when all of the German titles were abandoned.  Now, of course, Prince William and Catherine are the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge.

Well, it's not really that surprising though, since Queen Mary's maternal grandparents were the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge (the son and daughter-in-law of George III), and following this, upon the death of their only son, the second Duke of Cambridge, in 1904 without legitimate heirs, the title became extinct. When King George V created Queen Mary's elder brother the Marquess of Cambridge in 1917 once he dropped the title Duke of Teck from his father, it made sense to give him a new name from his mother's side of the family.

Regarding Prince William: since the dukedoms of York, Kent, Edinburgh, etc. are still in use, Cambridge seems like an obvious choice (Duke of Connaught also would have worked) having been the title of a king's son before (in recent enough history).
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Offline jehan

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Re: What was Alexandra's Native Language and Maiden Name?
« Reply #23 on: August 19, 2011, 06:47:18 PM »
The useage of "Fitz" did not always/automatically denote the illegitimacy of a male.  Its origin is quite early, probably the Norman language.      Regards,  AP.

You are correct that the origins are Norman.  "Fitz" is derived from the Latin "filius" meaning "son".  And it did not necessarily denote illegitimacy early on - it was just a surname (not necessarily hereditary).  King Henry ll was known as "Henry FitzEmpress", after his mother Mathilda, through whom he derived his claim to the English crown.  She was the widow of Henry the Holy Roman Emperor-  interesting that she kept the title during her second marriage to Geoffrey of Anjou.

I'm not sure who was the first illegitimate person to be granted the "Fitz" surname, but Henry Vlll's son the Duke of Richmond was known as "Henry Fitzroy".
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Offline Превед

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Re: What was Alexandra's Native Language and Maiden Name?
« Reply #24 on: October 31, 2013, 02:56:48 PM »
The useage of "Fitz" did not always/automatically denote the illegitimacy of a male.  Its origin is quite early, probably the Norman language.      Regards,  AP.

And perhaps contrary to the Slavic patronymic suffix -vič  / -вич, which originally was exclusively aristocratic ("писаться с вичем") and has become democratic, the -fitz suffix has gone from quite widespread among the Anglo-Norman gentry and urban middle class to a rare patrician relict.
BTW Fitzroy = Tsarevich
Fitzempress ≈ Tsesarevich
« Last Edit: October 31, 2013, 03:00:11 PM by Превед »
Березы севера мне милы,
Их грустный, опущённый вид,
Как речь безмолвная могилы,
Горячку сердца холодит.

(Афанасий Фет: Ивы и березы, 1843 / 1856)

Offline Превед

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Re: What was Alexandra's Native Language and Maiden Name?
« Reply #25 on: February 26, 2014, 05:27:42 PM »
Prinzessin von Hessen und bei Rhein.... so cool that Russian can express it all in single words: принцесса Гессенская и Прирейнская.
Березы севера мне милы,
Их грустный, опущённый вид,
Как речь безмолвная могилы,
Горячку сердца холодит.

(Афанасий Фет: Ивы и березы, 1843 / 1856)

Offline AGRBear

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Re: What was Alexandra's Native Language and Maiden Name?
« Reply #26 on: April 17, 2014, 02:32:58 PM »
In 1992 the royal family made sure that everyone knew that Charles new son was shown to have his  royal background from both sides.  One of the books published was ROYAL HIGNESS, Ancestry of the ROYAL CHILD.

Charles lineage in Great Britain is linked to the Houses of Stuart, Hanover and Windsor....

It must be noted that the House of Hanover was German and George I never spoke English in Hanover or after he took the crown as King of Great Britian.  

George II spoke some English but not well.

George III was looking and sounding more English than his elders.....

Queen Victoria ( House of Hanover) of Great Britain spoke English and German,  married another German Albert of Saxony, who spoke German  with great effort so to make him feel more at ease in Victoria's English world they spoke German and some English in their private life.



Windsor wikipedia:  >>It was founded by King George V by royal proclamation on 17 July 1917, when he changed the name of the British Royal Family from the German << [Houses of Hanover,]  >>Saxe-Coburg and Gotha (a branch of the House of Wettin) to the English Windsor, due to the anti-German sentiment in the British Empire during World War I. The most prominent member of the House of Windsor is its head, Queen Elizabeth II, who is the reigning monarch of 16 Commonwealth realms.<<

The old families of England and Denmark are  mainly updated or attached to  Elisabeth II's mother's  Elisabeth Bowes-Lyon family tree...

AGRBear
« Last Edit: April 17, 2014, 02:50:52 PM by AGRBear »
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Offline Превед

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Re: What was Alexandra's Native Language and Maiden Name?
« Reply #27 on: April 17, 2014, 04:38:42 PM »
In 1992 the royal family made sure that everyone knew that Charles new son was shown to have his  royal background from both sides.  One of the books published was ROYAL HIGNESS, Ancestry of the ROYAL CHILD.

Charles lineage in Great Britain is linked to the Houses of Stuart, Hanover and Windsor..............

AGRBear, do you honestly believe that people don't know this already? It's basic facts about the most famous monarchy in the world! And has little directly to do with Alexandra Fyodorovna.
Березы севера мне милы,
Их грустный, опущённый вид,
Как речь безмолвная могилы,
Горячку сердца холодит.

(Афанасий Фет: Ивы и березы, 1843 / 1856)

Offline Kalafrana

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Re: What was Alexandra's Native Language and Maiden Name?
« Reply #28 on: April 18, 2014, 01:22:20 AM »
I agree on both counts.

AGR Bear, you are doing an Rric Lowe!

Ann

Offline AGRBear

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Re: What was Alexandra's Native Language and Maiden Name?
« Reply #29 on: April 18, 2014, 04:07:40 PM »
I agree on both counts.

AGR Bear, you are doing an Rric Lowe!

Ann

I do not know who "Rric Lowe" is?  Therefore,  I cannot give a "yes" or a "no".

AGRBear
« Last Edit: April 18, 2014, 04:38:34 PM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152