Author Topic: Assassination attempt in 1916  (Read 19704 times)

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Offline Mahonemo

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Assassination attempt in 1916
« on: September 18, 2011, 02:59:52 PM »
I am looking for information on the assassination attempt on the Tsarina three days after Christmas in 1916. All I know so far it was made by an officer, who was hung the following morning. Any help would be appreciated.
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Offline nena

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Re: Assassination attempt in 1916
« Reply #1 on: September 18, 2011, 04:34:40 PM »
Well, I'll try to find something for you, I have it in one my book, which is away of me -asap I get it, I'll post it. I only remember that one said: "Tsarina, to be killed".
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Offline historyfan

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Re: Assassination attempt in 1916
« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2011, 07:51:34 PM »
Was there an actual attempt, or just a rough outline of a plan?  I haven't heard there was actually an attempt made.  That was right after the murder of Rasputin - wouldn't there have been much made of an assassination attempt so soon on the heels of the death of Russia's most hated man?

Offline nena

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Re: Assassination attempt in 1916
« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2011, 02:11:47 AM »
Grand Duke Nicholas Mikhailovich wrote in his diary after Rasputin's murder: " All that they have done...is just a halfway, because Alexandra Feodorovna and Protopopov also should be murdered obligatorily...it is logical...But I can't do it alone, how? I an not a murderer.". Of course, it was heard, those rumors, and Grand Duke was sent on his estate Grushevka. Also, Shulgin had been thinking about an assasination at Tsar in late December of 1916. Simply there was a chaos in those months in Russia, and yes, those were speculations, and it was not attempted!
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Offline Talya

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Re: Assassination attempt in 1916
« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2011, 02:25:20 AM »
You could hardly call this an assassination attempt, but in December 1916 a plot was uncovered that included several grand dukes and aristocrats to remove Alix and make retire to a convent.

Also, nena, what day was that diary entry? And what book? Thanks in advance :)
« Last Edit: September 19, 2011, 02:29:16 AM by Talya »
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Offline nena

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Re: Assassination attempt in 1916
« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2011, 02:40:05 AM »
Indeed, nothing happened, but surely there were plans to remove the Empress. The date was not put, and all credits go to Radzinsky's book on Rasputin.
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Offline blessOTMA

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Re: Assassination attempt in 1916
« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2011, 11:14:53 AM »
If one was going to over thrown AF,  would always be a half measure as long as NII was on the throne...if they wanted to remove AF, one does it by removing N II. Just killing AF was a  crazy idea . The throne is still a mess...but who to put on? the hopeless Valladimirs?...with GD Kirill married to a divorced woman? Instead of placing Dimity P at Rasputin's murder, they should have put him on the throne as a fresh start. I believe it's possible he was placed at Rasputin's mudrer to ruin him as a choice for the throne. It was a hopeless botch up. The Romanovs started the Russian Revolution and then  just proved the ability to rule was gone from the family.  As for Nicholas Mikhailovich's diary passage...there one sees the problem in one sentence...they plot and plot but cannot do what they think should be done. The work requires doing as well as scheming...or others will step in and finish the job. Plus there seems no clear leader . It was revolution by committee! lol!....that's why one sees Maria Pavlovna  the elder jump the gun and try to gather in Olga N  and gain an advantage for her son's cause...it shows no discipline among the plotters . They didn't seem to have an actual plan...just endless conversations

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Offline Russian Art Lover

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Re: Assassination attempt in 1916
« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2011, 02:46:24 PM »
Grand Duke Nicholas Mikhailovich wrote in his diary after Rasputin's murder: " All that they have done...is just a halfway, because Alexandra Feodorovna and Protopopov also should be murdered obligatorily...it is logical...But I can't do it alone, how? I an not a murderer.". Of course, it was heard, those rumors, and Grand Duke was sent on his estate Grushevka. Also, Shulgin had been thinking about an assasination at Tsar in late December of 1916. Simply there was a chaos in those months in Russia, and yes, those were speculations, and it was not attempted!

Grand Duke Nicholas Mikhailovich repeats these thoughts in a letter written to Dowager Empress Marie Feodorovna at the very end of 1916 - note that, like other members of the family, he thinks Alix should be "eliminated", but it is all very much in the abstract sense, no concrete steps:

"I put before you the exact same dilemma. After we have removed the hypnotist, we must try to incapacitate the hypnotised. No matter how hard it is, she must be sent as far away as possible, either to a sanatorium or to a convent. We are talking about saving the throne - not the dynasty, which is still secure, but the current sovereign. Otherwise, it will be too late... The whole of Russia knows that the late Rasputin and A. F. are the one and the same. The first has been killed, now the other must also disappear…"

[GA RF, F. 642, Op. 1, D. 2350, L. 34 (verso), 35]
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Offline blessOTMA

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Re: Assassination attempt in 1916
« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2011, 09:55:31 PM »
That's amazingly cold blooded...and yet he sat back?  Exactly how did Nicholas Mikhailovich think this would happen? 

We are talking about saving the throne - not the dynasty, which is still secure, but the current sovereign

Does this mean he wishes to keep Nicholas II on the throne after AF "disappears" ...since he is writing to N II's mother, I think perhaps so.That might of been thier biggest problem in realizing their plan. It would be a hopeless half measure, ineffective and hardly worth the crime. So when  Nicholas Mikhailovich later told a French diplomat that “our courage failed us at the last minute” , perhaps  what he was alluding to is this trying to both over throw a sovereign and keep one at the same time.
 

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Offline Sunny

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Re: Assassination attempt in 1916
« Reply #9 on: October 21, 2011, 12:44:46 AM »
Instead of placing Dimity P at Rasputin's murder, they should have put him on the throne as a fresh start.

This way, maybe he would have had a chance to marry Olga, since OTMA was considered the only good thing dynasty had.

The Romanovs started the Russian Revolution and then  just proved the ability to rule was gone from the family.

not only from the family. Whole Russia was unable to rule itself. The provisional Governement was a complete zero and unsertood nothing of what was to do. Lenin seemed to understand, at first ("Land, Peace and Power") but what did he? He gave peace, of course, but at which conditions? If germany had won, it would have taken half of the Russian Empire. He never really gave land - IMHO people in the kholkov were slave as well as they were during tsarism. Free only on the paper, just like after 1861. Power? Oh yes. Stalin had power. But if we consider "power to the people" the way in which the Urals autonomously decided to kill the IF, well, it reallyh a good example.

Anyway. I quote you. The whole family was anable to rule. Nicholas was not prepared to be Emperor, he was not able, and this is known. But none else in the family was. His cousins and uncles shouted, but they were as unable as he was. I really find romanovs GDs incapable and hypocritical people. I really despise them because they were able only to speak, also without reflect. I've always read that the family would have preferred Michail on the throne. Skipping now the fact he had married a divorced woman, had a morganatic son who couldn't have been heir & everyting else: Michail was not able! The Dowager Empr. stated he was better than his eleder brother, but IMHO he wasn't.
Of course Michail was a witty man, but not born to rule as Nicholas wasn't. And when i was reading his abdication manifesto yesterday, I was burning with anger. The whole family wanted you to be tsar instead of your brother, they all stated you were better, and what are you in fact? A coward.
You would say that none would have liked to be tsar in that particular moment of crisis. Of course. But they had MADE A REVOLUTION. If you protest, you MUST be ready to do something ACTIVELY to change things. As BlessOTMA stated, the family wanted to remove Nicholas & AF but they had no idea of what to do. NO IDEA. None of them was able or willingly to do something. They were great at shouting but none was so brave to RULE.
Michail, first of all, was a real COWARD, IMHO. If he didn't want to rule, why did he approve his cousins' and uncles' manifesto? He could have stayed apart from everything.
On the contrary, he behaved like a real coward. None was able to replace an unable tsar.

Sorry for my strong words but this things really makes me angry. I'm deeply sure that if you protest against something, you should be ready to do something else in response.
They didn't - and this is why i despise them. Nicholas was unable to rule and made so many mistakes, but at least he tried to do his best (but he hadn't the capabilities to do). The rest of the family was a group of hypocritical and stupid people, or, at least, they behaved that way.
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Offline Russian Art Lover

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Re: Assassination attempt in 1916
« Reply #10 on: October 21, 2011, 01:18:18 AM »
Sorry for my strong words but this things really makes me angry. I'm deeply sure that if you protest against something, you should be ready to do something else in response.

I think this is a very good post, and maybe puts in a nutshell the whole "case for the prosecution" against the other Romanovs in the events of 1916-17. They should have had a definite plan, centred around some figure, whether it was Misha (brother), Dmitry Pavlovich & Olga, Alexis, whoever, and led by such major family figures as the Dowager Empress, Ella, maybe the Vladimiroviches... But Sunny is right - protesting is the easy part ... what did they have to offer in the place of Nicky and AF ???

The one thing I am not sure about is the following, which I know is a widespread theory and I think appears in Massie, but the poster also suggests they do not agree with it:

"I've always read that the family would have preferred Michail on the throne. Skipping now the fact he had married a divorced woman, had a morganatic son who couldn't have been heir & everyting else: Michail was not able! The Dowager Empr. stated he was better than his eleder brother, but IMHO he wasn't."

In contrast to this belief, Sergei Witte recorded a conversation he had with Marie about Nicholas: "Do you mean to say that His Majesty does not have the character to be an emperor?" "That is correct," Marie Feodorovna replied, "but should anything happen, he would be replaced by Misha, who has even less will and character."

[S. Y. Witte, Vospominaniya, Moscow, 1960, Vol. 3, p. 43.]
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Offline Sunny

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Re: Assassination attempt in 1916
« Reply #11 on: October 21, 2011, 06:27:39 AM »

In contrast to this belief, Sergei Witte recorded a conversation he had with Marie about Nicholas: "Do you mean to say that His Majesty does not have the character to be an emperor?" "That is correct," Marie Feodorovna replied, "but should anything happen, he would be replaced by Misha, who has even less will and character."

[S. Y. Witte, Vospominaniya, Moscow, 1960, Vol. 3, p. 43.]

RussianArtLover, this is very, very interesting. Thank you so much! When i wrote Misha was preferred, i referred to sa document (Fall of the Romanovs, page 90) in which Nicholas was requested to abdicate in favour not of Aleksej, but of Michail. I also recall i read that Misha was thought to be better than Nicholas among the family, maybe i read it in The lost Word of N&A, by Kurth, but i've not the book here, so i cannot check, alas.
But what you posted is very interesting, so thank you very much. At least, Marie Fedorovna had a clear and objective vision of her children. ("At least" means at least her, among the family).
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Offline blessOTMA

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Re: Assassination attempt in 1916
« Reply #12 on: October 21, 2011, 06:12:22 PM »
Very interesting....I have often thought if Misha was preferred, it was because Minnie felt she could control him far more than Nicholas , who was a lost cause if one wanted to control him , Alix had that covered and forever ...and I have wondered if Misha  ran off with a spectacularly  unsuitable woman in part as a means of breaking free from this idea/ control. As their mother points out, Misha was even less able for the role of Tsar. Nicholas was a fine gentleman would have been a sterling constitutional monarch...but that's not what was required.

It seems the family conspirators could not agree on a replacement and that was a major cause of the collapse of their schemes ...if one is waiting for others to give you power in such a situation, well there's the problem. In such times, you take power. As a family they had forgotten that key element . So they could not act decidedly...only endlessly undermine the throne. Perfect recipe for disaster

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Offline Sunny

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Re: Assassination attempt in 1916
« Reply #13 on: October 22, 2011, 12:43:59 AM »
Very interesting....I have often thought if Misha was preferred, it was because Minnie felt she could control him far more than Nicholas , who was a lost cause if one wanted to control him , Alix had that covered and forever ...

I thought the same. And I also think that, is Misha had become tsar, the GDs would have hated Natasha also, like they hated AF - none of them 2 was a "dagmar - like" woman (the kind of tsaritsa they wanted). But anyway.

I've always thought that, in any case, the family was adrift. I mean: so many morganatics marriages & everything, to us it sounds stupid but in that time it was un umbreakable rule.
And i was thinking: who signed that manifesto?
Michail: morganatica marriage to a commoner & divorced woman (!!!) from whom had a son who would'nt have could be the heir because was considered illegitimate and didn't wear the family's name. His marriage was not accepted in the first moment.
Kirill: not allowed marriage (because Ducky was his first cousin and this is not permitted in Orthodoxy), and moreover Ducky was divorced. I'm not sure but i think their daughters didn't have the family name. But i could be wrong.
Pavel Aleks. Morganatic marriage, 3 illegitimate sons, quite abandoned his legitimate ones and sergej and ella took care of them.

I don't remember well, maybe also Nicolasha was in the second manifesto? If he was, anyway. We know his wife. (Stana of Montenegro).
To summarize: those who signed the document were memeber of the family who were somehow put aside because of their marriages -  i think they hated the system, the law that didn't let them have a recognized marriage, and then Nicholas And AF as personification of that law & system. But that's IMHO, just a thought.
But if you add Boris' marriage to ksesinkaja (!!!), Olga A's to an official, and Maria Pavlovna (younger)'s to a commoner... well, the situation in the R family was not so "pure".
In the end, I think that N and AF was the last 2 people who were conforming to a moral code that was faiding, they kept hold on to a world and values system the war and history were carring away, and they didn not recognize.
I also think this is quite because everyone said that OTMA were naive and "out of the world": the moral values and strong edyucation N&AF gave them was no more regarded as immutable in a world which was changing rapidly.
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Offline blessOTMA

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Re: Assassination attempt in 1916
« Reply #14 on: October 22, 2011, 11:47:30 AM »
Indeed Sunny...that's why as I say Dimity P should have been put forward, instead of removed from consideration by placing him at Rasputin's murder.... But I believe jealousy between family factions played a part in the collapse of thier schemes ( one can hardly call them plans! ) They were fighting each other somewhat more than anything else....Miechen running to AP to snare Olga N...so obvious and ridiculous...I can't see
 NII and Alix  NOT realizing that was a warning....Miechen doesn't do something like that unless something is on the boil...imo

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