Author Topic: Prince Pavle of Yugoslavia, his family and descendants, Part II  (Read 82973 times)

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Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Prince Pavle of Yugoslavia, his family and descendants, Part II
« Reply #120 on: December 10, 2012, 08:51:25 AM »
I Think Paul was a victim of circumstance. Had King Alexander not died, he could have lived in comfort in England with his British friends. Yet he cannot resist his destiny with Hitler.

Princess Nicholas of Greece was appalled by what Olga had to go through and even at one point ask her daughter to leave her husband.


Offline Marc

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Re: Prince Pavle of Yugoslavia, his family and descendants, Part II
« Reply #121 on: December 11, 2012, 07:54:59 AM »
Had King Alexander not died, he could have lived in comfort in England with his British friends.

Doesn't have to be that way...

During his studies Paul just loved living in England,but when his cousin Alexander became the King Paul wanted to feel useful for his country and do something,lets say have a "job" as royals could have,but Alexander wanted everything to be in his hands and treated Paul as an incapable figure who could not help...

To avoid humiliation of being constantly treated like "the little incapable brother",Paul traveled with his wife,trying to avoid as much as he can that kind of situation...He would often write to Alexander begging for a role in the country,but Alexander felt that the whole power was in his hands...

Only in years near the end of his life Alexander felt more connected to Paul,his family and started to trust him more which connected him to the country...At that time he just enjoyed filling his art museum(later National Museum) and inviting guest to Belgrade...

So,with a useful role in the monarchy Paul wouldn't be reduced to being an English county gentleman...as much as he loved England...

Unfortunately,as you say,he was the victim of politics...As much as he loved Britain,they "deserted him" when he most needed them.They sacrificed him as for political reasons...
« Last Edit: December 11, 2012, 08:00:47 AM by Marc »

Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Prince Pavle of Yugoslavia, his family and descendants, Part II
« Reply #122 on: December 11, 2012, 03:59:44 PM »
Yes. But at least the Queen Mother remained a friend as much as possible. In later years Olga stayed with the Queen Mother at Clarence House when she visited London.

Offline Svetabel

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Re: Prince Pavle of Yugoslavia, his family and descendants, Part II
« Reply #123 on: February 07, 2013, 06:14:05 AM »


I always wondered has Prince Paul ever met his half-sister Countess Helene Aurora di Noghera and has there ever been any contact between two sides of the family...

Princess Aurora was a very scandalous lady at that time...there was a talk of her giving twins during her marriage to Prince Arsen,but he denied the paternity and didn't want to accept them.Don't know what happened afterwards with them.

And again,Prince Paul lived with her in Sankt Peterburg just one year after his birth...But,as she wanted to be free of any kind of obligation towards the child she had,she gave him to his uncle then Prince Peter(later King) to raise him as his father Arsen was too busy womanizing and gambling in Paris,but he has seen his father much often then his mother whom he has seen just two times after that...

He recollects from his memory that at one point he was taken to some ship which stopped so that an unknown woman could hug him for a moment.He later found out that it was his mother.

Princess Aurora had many relationships and married already pregnant(with Helene) to her second husband Count Nicola Giovanni Maria di Noghera...Unfortunately,she died very young at the age of 30...





I've recently read a Russian bio on Princess Aurora and there were some rare facts on her! She really did have twins in 1895 while being still married to Prince Arsen. The father of those twins (2 sons - Nikolai and Sergei) was Count Manteifel whom Aurora wanted to marry but he obviously didn't want. One of those twins, Nikolai, survived and lived until 1933 but his life was a mess - alhocol and drugs...
Aurora also had 4 children from Count Noghera, 1 daughter and 3 sons, but only daughter survived and married (sorry, don't remember whom).

But the most interesting fact that possibly Prince Pavle had a twin-sister or sister Alexandra, born 1893 or 1894 year. Aurora in her correspondence of 1894-1897 years often mentioned 2 children - "Pavlik" (Pavle) and "Alexandra".
Is there in any Serbian sources some mention of Pavle's sister Alexandra?

Offline Marc

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Re: Prince Pavle of Yugoslavia, his family and descendants, Part II
« Reply #124 on: February 07, 2013, 09:40:11 AM »

I've recently read a Russian bio on Princess Aurora and there were some rare facts on her! She really did have twins in 1895 while being still married to Prince Arsen. The father of those twins (2 sons - Nikolai and Sergei) was Count Manteifel whom Aurora wanted to marry but he obviously didn't want. One of those twins, Nikolai, survived and lived until 1933 but his life was a mess - alhocol and drugs...
Aurora also had 4 children from Count Noghera, 1 daughter and 3 sons, but only daughter survived and married (sorry, don't remember whom).

But the most interesting fact that possibly Prince Pavle had a twin-sister or sister Alexandra, born 1893 or 1894 year. Aurora in her correspondence of 1894-1897 years often mentioned 2 children - "Pavlik" (Pavle) and "Alexandra".
Is there in any Serbian sources some mention of Pavle's sister Alexandra?


The twins were mentioned somewhere,but just briefly-in context that Prince Arsen didn't want to recognize the paternity...but unfortunately,from Serbian resources nothing is known about Alexandra :-( It would be interesting to know something more for sure...

Out of all Aurora's children from her second husband,only Countess Helena Aurora di Noghera survived,she did marry Gaston Joseph Tissot(1891-1945) and they had issue...
« Last Edit: February 07, 2013, 10:04:33 AM by Marc »

Offline Marc

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Re: Prince Pavle of Yugoslavia, his family and descendants, Part II
« Reply #125 on: May 27, 2013, 05:28:54 PM »
Princess Elizabeth,dressed for one of the festivities during the crowning of Queen Elizabeth II:


Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Prince Pavle of Yugoslavia, his family and descendants, Part II
« Reply #126 on: May 27, 2013, 06:54:56 PM »
She looks almost angelic in this picture. :-)

Offline Paul

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Re: Prince Pavle of Yugoslavia, his family and descendants, Part II
« Reply #127 on: May 28, 2013, 01:54:50 AM »
In that pose and that photo style, she strongly resembles Isabella Rossellini.
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Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Prince Pavle of Yugoslavia, his family and descendants, Part II
« Reply #128 on: May 28, 2013, 02:27:33 PM »
Actually Elisabeth was the carbon copy of her father Prince Paul...a more feminine version. Isabella's dark looks came from her father Roberto too.

Offline Marc

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Re: Prince Pavle of Yugoslavia, his family and descendants, Part II
« Reply #129 on: June 06, 2013, 10:25:25 PM »
Actually Elisabeth was the carbon copy of her father Prince Paul...a more feminine version. Isabella's dark looks came from her father Roberto too.

Lately,she has had the chance to meet Pierce Brosnan,former James Bond-agent 007,as her granddaughter India Riven Oxenberg works as his personal assistant and also has a role in the movie “November man”.Apart from that she will also have a role in the movie "Three Days To Kill" with Kevin Kostner...
« Last Edit: June 06, 2013, 10:36:00 PM by Marc »

Offline Marlene

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Re: Prince Pavle of Yugoslavia, his family and descendants, Part II
« Reply #130 on: June 07, 2013, 10:31:33 AM »
The movie is being filmed in Belgrade, many of the cast and crew have been staying at the Hyatt ... had drinks with several crew members, and was in the hot tub at the same time as 2 of stuntmen.   A week ago Sat now, we were getting ready to get on the bus for the ride to Topola as a part of the cortege, a police escort with the movie camera shooting was in front of us and our police escort got behind them ... I might be in the movie :)

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Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Prince Pavle of Yugoslavia, his family and descendants, Part II
« Reply #131 on: June 08, 2013, 02:02:06 AM »
Interesting...Was she the star ? I know she did film projects...

Offline KarlandZita

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Re: Prince Pavle of Yugoslavia, his family and descendants, Part II
« Reply #132 on: July 28, 2013, 12:21:13 PM »
Portrait of Princess Paul of Yugoslavia in 1929 :

Reginei Mama Elena a Romaniei

Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Prince Pavle of Yugoslavia, his family and descendants, Part II
« Reply #133 on: July 29, 2013, 04:37:28 PM »
I hope this is not from Arturo Beeche's site. He is very strict with his images. A very beautiful & glamorous shot of Olga.

Offline serbianna

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Re: Prince Pavle of Yugoslavia, his family and descendants, Part II
« Reply #134 on: August 09, 2013, 08:01:46 AM »
To begin with, let me introduce myself, as I'm new here. I'm serbianna.



I am troubled with a dilemma regarding the divorce of Prince Arsen and Princess Aurora - Prince Paul's parents. Some members here noted they divorced because Aurora bore twin sons in 1895. However, another document describing their divorce says she bore only one child (who was the cause of the divorce and whom Arsen renounced). The document in question is the statement of Dragomir Stojadinovich (the younger brother of famous Milan Stojadinovich, the Prime Minister during the period of Prince Paul's regency) given to the UDBA agents (UDBA was something like Tito's secret police, a socialist Gestapo if you will). quote the very sentences mentioning the 'bastard' child:

"Arsen je tada preko jednog francuskog lista dao izjavu da se razvodi od svoje žene i da dete rođenou tom braku ne priznaje za svoje".

Translated from Serbian to English:

"Arsen, back then, stated in one French newspaper that he was divorcing from his wife and that he claimed a child born in that marriage not to be his".


To make the entire matter all the more confusing - Dragomir intended to hint that this bastard child whom Prince Arsen renounce was - Prince Paul! This is a very scarcely documented story, and I never read anything about it in either Prince Paul's or Prince Arsen's official biographies. Does anyone of you happen to be familiar with it?